Holey Land Cleanup = FUTILE !!!!!!!!

[Off Rode]

 

BOY, what a waste of time that was cleaning up the parking area!!!!!!!!

I just returned from riding out there THIS MORNING & the area is FULL of trash.  The first exclamation was by my son who bellowed out, "This is rediculous!!  We just cleaned this whole place up and look at it".

That is way too quick of a turn around from the clean up we just had.  I am thoroughly convinced there is not much time left out there for ATV's.  The accidents & trash alone gives them enough reason to shut it down.

Enjoy it while you can, cause it won't be long before it is another PROHIBITED area!!

[Thrumud]

I can't believe it, people just don't give a crap any more.  The only riding place closest to Miami, Ft Lauderdale and Palm Beach and the place can't be kept up.  Well guys, you could kiss that place goodbye.  Thanks to the scumbag riders that don't care.

[Joedirt]

The same stooges look at you funny for having floorboards full of  Soda cans...like they have never seen someone give a crap....takes less effort to take your garbage with you than to leave it.

[Anoriginal]

It's actually closer than you might think to being history. Two weeks ago myself and the other owners of our camp in the Big Cypress went down on our ATV's to check out the camp and to get an ATV inspected and tagged.

While we were getting the inspection, I spoke to the park ranger about ATV's. He said that it is really getting out of control in the Big Cypress and that the NPS along with the FWC were mulling around different "solutions" for the "ATV problem". While we were chatting, two FWC officers came up, one that I know personally. All three of these guys said that the single biggest complaint generator in the Everglades is the use of ATV's. Uninspected ATVs, reckless riding, littering, constant tresspassing on private camp property and vandalism are the big ones.

I was pretty sad about their comments to say the least. I own a camp in the Big Cypress and use my ATV to travel in and out when it's dry or when I don't have anyone going in with me. So, I really would like to see the ATV's continuously allowed. Regardless, we listened to them, got our inspections and headed to camp. The FWC guys went on for a long time about the Holeylands and how out of hand it is. They said that the ATV crowd is totally out of hand and has no respect for the place. Trash, drinking, drugs, speeding in the wrong areas, recklessness, theft, vandalism and tresspass are the big ones. They said that "everyone" is pushing to get the ATV's out of there and that it is just a matter of time.

Later that day, we traveled out from camp and took a route that led us further to the east than we normally go. All day I thought about what the NPS and FWC guys told me. On the way out, we stopped into see some folks at another camp with an airstrip that I'd previously only spoken to via telephone. When we pulled up (staying outside the fence which was clearly marked every 20 or so feet with no tresspassing signs) the owners came out on their buggy to speak to us. They quickly began to comment (unsolicited) about the ATV use and problems they've experienced.

They told us that they are constantly having people ride their ATV's under the cable fence surrounding their property (like I said, very well posted too) and onto their private airstrip. People drag race up and down the strip, tearing up the ground and even doing donuts. In addition, they've come into camp late at night only to find people on ATV's camping on their airstrip. Keep in mind, this is a 750,000 acre preserve that is available for riding, yet they choose to tresspass and tear up the airstrip.

Many private land owners report the same. ATV riders coming in, riding, drinking, trespassing, vandalising, riding after curfew and completely disregarding the rules. The NPS and the FWC are both tired of it. They, along with various other groups are revamping the ORV regulations in not only the Big Cypress, but many other ATV accessible locations. The general consensus is that ATV's are not welcome any longer.

I hate to see this happening. I know the majority of the people on this site respect places to ride and want to see us keep them. However, it's being ruined by idiots with no concept of decency or impact. I am afraid that within the next 3 to 5 years ATV's in the Big Cypress and Holeylands will be a thing of the past.  Off Rode's comments are just another shining example why.

[Off Rode]

I hate to see this happening. I know the majority of the people on this site respect places to ride and want to see us keep them. However, it's being ruined by idiots with no concept of decency or impact. I am afraid that within the next 3 to 5 years ATV's in the Big Cypress and Holeylands will be a thing of the past.  Off Rode's comments are just another shining example why.

I think that's a GENEROUS estimation to be truthful.  We are currently living on a stay of execution, sadly.

In addition to my original post, there was enough garbage there to fill the dump truck AGAIN and then some......

We need an offroad street sweeper truck, literally.

[Gato]

I think that FWC need to put thier feet down cause the 2 times we have been there u see some dumba$$e$ in really nice trucks dressed like they were going to a party with 2 or more Banshees riding crazy and it is like I say if they just start stopping some of these bikes and running #s I bet we can get a couple of bikes back to their owners no to say only shees but when you see a person with jeans new nikes and coller shirts theys guys are not there to ride and the way they ride just sucks up and down the main parking (1st) is messed up I was one of the guys doing the cleanup with my 2 kids and that kind of news just sucks but like I said also the people not cleaning up were lookin at us like WTF or these guys doing ? just sad we had a fellow park right by where we were I mean II that close and didnt get off his truck til we finished that area. just my .02

[FIVE-O]

I don't know but maybe they need to charge some kind of fee for riding out there. That might keep the occasional knuckle head from going. That fee might fund more FWC officers for that specific area on the weekends, it's a ghost town during the week. I have noticed that when the FWC officer on the quad is in the area those that are non-compliant instantly become model citizens. If we lose that area my 4 quads are going in the trader. That is a cool place to ride 30 minutes from the house.     



   

[Thrumud]

I say we meet with FWC and try to find a solution to this problem. This is the only way we are going to keep this place.

[Thrumud]

I just called their office, the FWC holds public meetings and maybe we can attend to one regarding the future of Holey Land before it's too late.  I was told to call tomorrow so I will let you guys know. I will do what ever it takes to save this place so if anyone wants to join in let me know.

[Gato]

D where would it be out by you or here in palm bch?

[Thrumud]

D where would it be out by you or here in palm bch?

I think it would be Palm Beach. I will find out tomorrow.

[Anoriginal]

Opening up some lines of communication is a great thing to do. I think meeting with the FWC would show them that there are ATV riders out there that actually care about and appreciate a place to ride.

One word of caution though; be sure you have someone capable of communicating on a rational/educated level with them when you meet. The reason I say this is because I've heard several folks joking about someone from the ATV community who was the most vocal at the Picayune media day a few months back. I do not know who this person was or what they did. However, everyone seems to think he was a dunbazz. Most of the comments contained "ghetto", "gangsta" and "moron". So, probably need to pick one person to do the talking and have the rest show up in silent support.  We want to make sure anyone representing us leaves a good impression.

[Off Rode]

I'd try to make that meeting since I'm so close.  I can't say that I have a good gut feeling about succeeding on issues that have already put a permanent stain on this sport.

1st the  littering would be impossible to eliminate without the OFFENDERS themselves straightening up their own acts.
      I don't think that more FWC officers are going to be able to catch each person who litters & seemingly not alot of people feel
      obligated to pick up trash that isn't their own(not to mention trash that is their own).
      
I think that since the commission put up speed limit signs, perhaps NO LITTERING signs may help prime the pump.  Some type of dumpster or means to offer a place to get rid of one's own garbage --- but that takes $$$$.

2nd How do you decrease the BAD wrecks???  I don't know of how most occur but I'm willing to bet it's not while people are mud
      bogging.  It is probably more commonly related to speeding & poor judgement whether from alcohol/drugs or rider inexperience.

I think that perhaps they could BAN any alcohol.(Probably NOT a popular idea, but you have to give in order to get) Just ask anyone who has been to J.W. Corbett(No ATV's but it's a management area) = ZERO TOLERANCE for possessing alcohol - that means you cannot even have a closed container anywhere, not legally anyway & they do fine for it.  You can't tell if someone's on drugs & the FWC isn't going to conduct arrests & check drug screenings.  It doesn't happen with regular motorists so it isn't feasible.

The only other things I can think of really start to dig into the freedoms that currently exist out there but probably add to the problem since the honor system isn't working.  

I am not really willing to give up yet since it is such a nice place to ride.

  

[Off Rode]

Opening up some lines of communication is a great thing to do. I think meeting with the FWC would show them that there are ATV riders out there that actually care about and appreciate a place to ride.

One word of caution though; be sure you have someone capable of communicating on a rational/educated level with them when you meet. The reason I say this is because I've heard several folks joking about someone from the ATV community who was the most vocal at the Picayune media day a few months back. I do not know who this person was or what they did. However, everyone seems to think he was a dunbazz. Most of the comments contained "ghetto", "gangsta" and "moron". So, probably need to pick one person to do the talking and have the rest show up in silent support.  We want to make sure anyone representing us leaves a good impression.

Definitely, we don't need anymore BAD publicity. 

[Anoriginal]

I'd try to make that meeting since I'm so close.  I can't say that I have a good gut feeling about succeeding on issues that have already put a permanent stain on this sport.

1st the  littering would be impossible to eliminate without the OFFENDERS themselves straightening up their own acts.
      I don't think that more FWC officers are going to be able to catch each person who litters & seemingly not alot of people feel
      obligated to pick up trash that isn't their own(not to mention trash that is their own).
      
I think that since the commission put up speed limit signs, perhaps NO LITTERING signs may help prime the pump.  Some type of dumpster or means to offer a place to get rid of one's own garbage --- but that takes $$$$.

2nd How do you decrease the BAD wrecks???  I don't know of how most occur but I'm willing to bet it's not while people are mud
      bogging.  It is probably more commonly related to speeding & poor judgement whether from alcohol/drugs or rider inexperience.

I think that perhaps they could BAN any alcohol.(Probably NOT a popular idea, but you have to give in order to get) Just ask anyone who has been to J.W. Corbett(No ATV's but it's a management area) = ZERO TOLERANCE for possessing alcohol - that means you cannot even have a closed container anywhere, not legally anyway & they do fine for it.  You can't tell if someone's on drugs & the FWC isn't going to conduct arrests & check drug screenings.  It doesn't happen with regular motorists so it isn't feasible.

The only other things I can think of really start to dig into the freedoms that currently exist out there but probably add to the problem since the honor system isn't working.  

I am not really willing to give up yet since it is such a nice place to ride.

  

I think (IMHO) that they can start by implementing a helmet rule, along with mandatory inspections and tagging ATV's and banning double riding. That will go leaps and bounds to cutting out the idiots and reducing wrecks.

[FIVE-O]

I saw 2 wrecks, in 20 minutes at the crossover on Saturday. Both involved knuckle heads doing wheelies on the bridge and levy, no helmets on either one, one rider ran into the back of one of his buddies doing a wheelie the other rider looped his bike. I also happened to be at Holey Land last year when there was a fatal crash and the rider had to be airlifted out of there.   

[ScooterB]

This is sad to hear... Myself and my son drove 2.5 hours to clean up and ride.

Dennis, keep me posted I'll come over for a meet with FWC if needed.

[lswjth2]

I personally know the captain for FWC here in Collier county. I don't know if he has any saying in that area. I will call him to discuss these problems and see if we can find any solutions before it's too late.....I will report back.Rick

[Off Rode]

I saw 2 wrecks, in 20 minutes at the crossover on Saturday. Both involved knuckle heads doing wheelies on the bridge and levy, no helmets on either one, one rider ran into the back of one of his buddies doing a wheelie the other rider looped his bike. I also happened to be at Holey Land last year when there was a fatal crash and the rider had to be airlifted out of there.   

THAT'S a huge component on PROHIBITING ATV's. 

It does seem ironic that they will fine you for having the wrong shaped safety flag all the while you don't need a thing to protect your coconut!!

[FIVE-O]

I'm pretty sure that if FWC was a little more visible there on the weekends the silly crap would begin to go away. Like the folks that unload their quads right there at the parking area and ride like jerks in flip flops.   

[Anoriginal]

FIVE-O:

What happened in the fatal crash? Reckless riding?

[06 BaNsHeE]

If theres a meeting we can attend.I say we mention something about am entrance fee???Like a 15 per Bike?Something that will keep the people not really interested in the sport out and the real riders in.Sorry if it was posted b4 but I havent read all the posts.Just pisses me off thinking that holy lands will be shut down because some a-holes dont know hot to clean after them selves 

[FIVE-O]

FIVE-O:

What happened in the fatal crash? Reckless riding?

I was told that a rider was jumping the road on his quad. He was jumping from north to south, at the front crossover parking area. It was later in the afternoon on a Sunday. As I was getting back to the parking area from the west, I saw the PBSO Air Rescue chopper landing on the levee, as several people were administering CPR, it was a sad sight.     

[backinsaddle]

if i remember the news, the rider was jumping the levee with no helmet on and crashed

[FIVE-O]

FIVE-O:

What happened in the fatal crash? Reckless riding?

Here is a related thread http://www.atvflorida.com/forum/index.php/topic,14616.msg190887.html#msg190887