someone sent me an email that will make you think

[debatethis]

What's the difference ? Read on.
 
Last month I attended my annual training session that’s required for maintaining my state prison security clearance.  During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs.
 
I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

 When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?" There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!" I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven.  Is that correct?" The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of "a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar."  He sheepishly replied, "Yes".

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in Heaven!" The Imam was speechless. I continued, "I also have a problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question.  Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be there with me?" 

 
You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the ‘Diversification’ training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs.

[Joedirt]

It is all about Interpretation...I will stop there....

[VForcedave]

Well done. I do not think that all followers of the Quaran are commanded to kill us. But it sure is looking that way. I just read a book on a fellow that was born into a high ranking Islamic family from Pakistan. To make a long story shorter, he converted to Christianity. His father put him in a hospital for the insane, drugged him, had him beaten and when that did not change his love for Jesus Christ, good old Dad tried to have his head cut off. He eventually escaped to Europe, Netherlands, Switzerland and now is preaching the Gospel in the USA and is head of a Evangelical Movement somewhere in the Midwest.     

[debatethis]

Lets not forget that it is a crime to be Christian, or any other religion than Muslim in Iran and you can be prosecuted and even killed for it.
Yeah, I'd venture to say that for the most part that particular religion would love to kill everyone that is not of the same faith.

[cheropride]

I don't see how one can say "it's all in intrepretation" -

If this indeed happen, which I would not be surprised, it's pretty clear-cut, no need for reading deeper into the matter.  The man responded, kill all "non-believers".  Ah-duh, that's pretty clear to me. 

[Fox17]

that is 100% the truth too. i cant imagine bein told to kill everyone and you will go to Heaven. it is just messed up to think that.

[bigscrub79]

I don't see how one can say "it's all in intrepretation" -

If this indeed happen, which I would not be surprised, it's pretty clear-cut, no need for reading deeper into the matter.  The man responded, kill all "non-believers".  Ah-duh, that's pretty clear to me. 

I believe what he meant was that the Koran (sp?) has been interpreted differently. Some muslims want to kill us and others think they are nuts. Christians are the same way, ie: Abortion clinic bombings and such. So simmer down ther fire cracker.

[cheropride]

  

[450rcrazy]

comparing Christians who blow up abortion clinics after hours (closed and no ones there) and muslims flying airplane loads of innocent people into buildings filled with more innocent people is  no comparison at all.The christians who blow up abortion clincs are trying to save gifts from god (babies).the muslims are trying to rid all humanity of those who do not believe in Allah.There was one person that was a christian who was killing abortion doctors back about 10 years ago ,his reasoning was it was the greater good he felt as for every abortion doctor killed he was saving 100's of human lives(babies)this was some what rational thinking but never the less wrong.there is no resonable rashinality in flying planes into buildings other than kill all non believers no greater good here.
just my .02

[bigscrub79]

comparing Christians who blow up abortion clinics after hours (closed and no ones there) and muslims flying airplane loads of innocent people into buildings filled with more innocent people is  no comparison at all.The christians who blow up abortion clincs are trying to save gifts from god (babies).the muslims are trying to rid all humanity of those who do not believe in Allah.There was one person that was a christian who was killing abortion doctors back about 10 years ago ,his reasoning was it was the greater good he felt as for every abortion doctor killed he was saving 100's of human lives(babies)this was some what rational thinking but never the less wrong.there is no resonable rashinality in flying planes into buildings other than kill all non believers no greater good here.
just my .02

OK first off slap jack, you tell the family of the people who got killed in the clinics that no one was there. I was just saying that there are radicals from both sides, not saying what they did was the same but none the less innocent people died. You dont think the RATIONAL is the same but you are talking about peoples religion and they feel what they did was rational. I am a christian and think that the muslim extremists are off their rocker, but i have heard from several muslims that they dont believe in killing those who dont believe in their faith. So you simmer down too.

[450rcrazy]

OK first off slap jack, you tell the family of the people who got killed in the clinics that no one was there. I was just saying that there are radicals from both sides

first off I feel there is no need for name calling .I never said I agree with the people who blow up abortion clinics and I know this is a sticky subject but I am pro-life beliver.If people would live a proper life style there would not be a need for abortion outside of rape cases.And most clinic bombings I have read about were after hours those happining during normal hours is unnessasary and no good would ever come of it .The bottom line is it was not christians flying the planes into buildings, or blowing up buses full of children or blowing up classrooms like the chechnian muslims did in russia nor was it christians who made the first attempt on the world trade center .99% of terrorist acts over the last 50 years were carried out by muslims,I am not saying all muslims are bad ,but it seems more are bad than good .And the good ones are not doing good at restoring a positive outlook on themselves.

[MachineDog]

I don't see how one can say "it's all in intrepretation" -

If this indeed happen, which I would not be surprised, it's pretty clear-cut, no need for reading deeper into the matter.  The man responded, kill all "non-believers".  Ah-duh, that's pretty clear to me. 

I believe what he meant was that the Koran (sp?) has been interpreted differently. Some muslims want to kill us and others think they are nuts. Christians are the same way, ie: Abortion clinic bombings and such. So simmer down ther fire cracker.

It is the Quaran I believe. I will ask you something more. What does this have to do with ATVs in Florida, or ATVs in general?? It has nothing to do with this website and will bring no good to the site either. Personally, I would be locking this topic now before it has the possibility of getting out of hand.

[450rcrazy]

well it is an open forum and if all posts where atv related there would be about five per day and this site would become somewhat boring .I do belive sometimes things can get out of hand but all in all these topics can also bring us closer together as a group.We all really need to band closer together and form a group like the NRA they know how to get things done and defend our rights. We here at atv florida all have strong opinions on stuff and if we just focus it properly we may get more places to ride!

[bigscrub79]

I apologize I shouldnt have called you a name. I do it in humor, just so you know where I am coming from.

[450rcrazy]

I apologize I shouldnt have called you a name. I do it in humor, just so you know where I am coming from.

Thats cool ,all in fun

[CABLEGUY1]

comparing Christians who blow up abortion clinics after hours (closed and no ones there) and muslims flying airplane loads of innocent people into buildings filled with more innocent people is  no comparison at all.The christians who blow up abortion clincs are trying to save gifts from god (babies).the muslims are trying to rid all humanity of those who do not believe in Allah.There was one person that was a christian who was killing abortion doctors back about 10 years ago ,his reasoning was it was the greater good he felt as for every abortion doctor killed he was saving 100's of human lives(babies)this was some what rational thinking but never the less wrong.there is no resonable rashinality in flying planes into buildings other than kill all non believers no greater good here.
just my .02

OK first off slap jack, you tell the family of the people who got killed in the clinics that no one was there. I was just saying that there are radicals from both sides, not saying what they did was the same but none the less innocent people died. You dont think the RATIONAL is the same but you are talking about peoples religion and they feel what they did was rational. I am a christian and think that the muslim extremists are off their rocker, but i have heard from several muslims that they dont believe in killing those who dont believe in their faith. So you simmer down too.

                                                                                                                                    I'm sure several Muslims probably did tell you that they dont believe in killing those not of their faith. What did you think they were going to say that they believe you should die because your a Christian? If they live here and voice that they believe nonbelievers should be killed they would be ran out of town at the very least. Surely you're not that gullable to believe it just because they say that to your face? I'm sure that not every single Muslim here in the United States believes it but I would guarantee that the majority of them do especially if they are practicing Muslims. Our own nievity is what contributed to being caught off guard on 911. Wake up people. Do you think my attitude towards this subject has a tone of prejudice to it? I'm not prejudice at all I'm just a realist.Do I think racial profilling is wrong? Ask yourself this question. If you're taking you're wife and kids on vacation via commercial airplane and you notice that a group of young men of Muslim decent were seen together in the terminal but are now seperated on the plane in what could be interpreted as strategicall positioning would you "A" remove you're family from the airplane "B" ask the stewardess if they could keep a close eye on them and do so yourself or "C" do nothing at all and ignore them completely?

[JayDawg]

What's the difference ? Read on.
 
Last month I attended my annual training session that’s required for maintaining my state prison security clearance.  During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs.
 
I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

 When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?" There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!" I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in Heaven.  Is that correct?" The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of "a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar."  He sheepishly replied, "Yes".

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in Heaven!" The Imam was speechless. I continued, "I also have a problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question.  Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be there with me?" 

 
You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the ‘Diversification’ training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs.

Awesome!!!

My stepdad is from the middle east and I have had many similar conversations with some of his friends who are muslim. I am a Christian pastor and have had some pretty good conversations with them too. It is my hope and prayer that maybe I can show them the love and truth of Jesus but and they in turn will believe but many times that is easier said than done.

[bigscrub79]

comparing Christians who blow up abortion clinics after hours (closed and no ones there) and muslims flying airplane loads of innocent people into buildings filled with more innocent people is  no comparison at all.The christians who blow up abortion clincs are trying to save gifts from god (babies).the muslims are trying to rid all humanity of those who do not believe in Allah.There was one person that was a christian who was killing abortion doctors back about 10 years ago ,his reasoning was it was the greater good he felt as for every abortion doctor killed he was saving 100's of human lives(babies)this was some what rational thinking but never the less wrong.there is no resonable rashinality in flying planes into buildings other than kill all non believers no greater good here.
just my .02

OK first off slap jack, you tell the family of the people who got killed in the clinics that no one was there. I was just saying that there are radicals from both sides, not saying what they did was the same but none the less innocent people died. You dont think the RATIONAL is the same but you are talking about peoples religion and they feel what they did was rational. I am a christian and think that the muslim extremists are off their rocker, but i have heard from several muslims that they dont believe in killing those who dont believe in their faith. So you simmer down too.

                                                                                                                                    I'm sure several Muslims probably did tell you that they dont believe in killing those not of their faith. What did you think they were going to say that they believe you should die because your a Christian? If they live here and voice that they believe nonbelievers should be killed they would be ran out of town at the very least. Surely you're not that gullable to believe it just because they say that to your face? I'm sure that not every single Muslim here in the United States believes it but I would guarantee that the majority of them do especially if they are practicing Muslims. Our own nievity is what contributed to being caught off guard on 911. Wake up people. Do you think my attitude towards this subject has a tone of prejudice to it? I'm not prejudice at all I'm just a realist.Do I think racial profilling is wrong? Ask yourself this question. If you're taking you're wife and kids on vacation via commercial airplane and you notice that a group of young men of Muslim decent were seen together in the terminal but are now seperated on the plane in what could be interpreted as strategicall positioning would you "A" remove you're family from the airplane "B" ask the stewardess if they could keep a close eye on them and do so yourself or "C" do nothing at all and ignore them completely?

Why do you quote what i say, tell me to "wake up" then say the same thing I said? Just wondering. I was on a plane seated right next to an arab gentleman, and believe me if he so much as got up to pee I was gonna whoop him. I am very aware that there are many extremists, but there are some who arent. I am not trying to say to befriend all muslims, but hey if they kill me while I am on a plane that would be fine because I am going to heaven. I just hope everyone else on the plane gets in touch with GOD before that.

[Joedirt]

I don't see how one can say "it's all in intrepretation" -

If this indeed happen, which I would not be surprised, it's pretty clear-cut, no need for reading deeper into the matter.  The man responded, kill all "non-believers".  Ah-duh, that's pretty clear to me. 

Of course you do not see my point of view.. ...let me break it down...you read something...you process the information...you make decisions based on how YOU understood the information...."Your interpretation"
Words can be twisted by anyone to suit their purpose..and weak minded people will believe it..all it takes is a little charisma...and you have a following.....

[SWAMP_DONKEY]

WOW... the first thread I read after being gone is this

     you know me I love to debate.....Should I?

         NNAAAA you guys have fun, you all know where I stand.

    See you on the trails

[Joedirt]

WOW... the first thread I read after being gone is this

     you know me I love to debate.....Should I?

         NNAAAA you guys have fun, you all know where I stand.

    See you on the trails

Come on....it is not the same with out you...

[FishaHallic]

I will stay out of this one after I say this "Fanatics of any religion are dangerous".

[debatethis]

Generally any extremist is a little nuts and yes can be dangerous, but I'm not entirely sure I agree in this situation. If that fanatic is religious and off the mark then yes he is dangerous. But you can compare different religious fanatics with very different results.
Christian "fanatics" wish to as kind and as loving to as many as possible in hopes of winning more over to God.This does not cover the crazy ones running cults trying to use God's name to promote their cause like the Brand Davidians.
Jewish "fanatics" believe in practicing their faith and promoting God
Even non religious "fanatics" such as agnostics believe in no God but live a good life for the sake of being a good person and just incase they're wrong that way they believe they will go to Heavan if there is indeed one.
Muslms on the other hand believe in killing all non-Muslims.

There is a big difference there. I'm not for restricting any religious practices or religions as long as their goal is not to wipe out all others on Earth. Want to be Muslim? Fine but you need to be one that loves your God and practices in a way that does NOT put the rest of the world at risk. Want to be one that wishes to kill every non-muslim? then don't      b!tc# when we take it to you and wipe you out first! - and not to get rid of a religion, but to make sure you don't try to kill us for our beliefs.

[310R_Dude]

I have a question:

If all muslims want to kill all non-muslims then why do we let
them into our country in the first place and secondly, why do
we fight for their freedom in Iraq today?

I have seen it said that we are "Liberating the Iraqi people."

Just curious,
Dan

[debatethis]

Not all Muslims believe in such extreme ways of making an all muslim world, but it appears that a great majority do. We allow them into our country because we have established a  history of allowing everyone in and allowing them to push their religion/heritage upon us while groups like the ACLU fight for their rights which eventually trample our own. We need to re-evaluate our imigration policy - no doubt there. I say keep everyone out. Muslim, Jew, Christian, etc, unless they come here to be American before all else instead of coming here to fly their flags and force their customs upon us while steadily chipping away at our own. No more should we allow people of any religion or race to come here to drain the system or to milk our fountain of prosperity. We have a great nation, but we have no obligation to dish it out to every poor person in the world. If they want to be American and denounce any and all other alliances then they can come and assymilate into our society. Keep their own heritage great , but without trying to force it upon us. We can't save the world by simply letting everyone in. I dare you to try to relocate to a prosperous nation and force them to adopt your religion/customs. it won't happen.
Iraq is a multiple front question. we "liberated" the people of Iraq to hopefully build an ally in the region. We wanted Sadam out for multiple reasons. to disuade other mid east countries from supporting terrorists, to make an example of him, to prevent him possibly getting a nuke that he already said he would immediately use on Isreal which would cause an all out nuclear war possibly world wide. the list goes on and on.