Construction out at Holeylands?

[digginfool]

As a civil engineer, I keep a subscription to several bid notification services.  The SFWMD is accepting bids for work at the end of 5 miles of paved roads at the Broward/Palm Beach County line.  Sounds like Holeylands/Rotenberger/Everglades WMA to me.  The project description is to build a pavilion, boat ramp with finger piers, information kiosks, bathrooms, demucking, paving, storm drainage and landscaping.  Based upon the SFWMD's actions over the last couple of years (closing Badluck and the area in Lee County last week), I fear that we will soon lose our area here.  With the improvements comes more visitors (read: environmentalists) who will not stand for our presence.  For those of you who wish to investigate on your own, the SFWMD Project Number is RFB6000000012, Harold A Campbell Public Use Facility.

[cheropride]

Wow - thanks for the info, and if this is what it sounds like, then it ain't good....

[Thrumud]

If the SFWMD think they are going to take Holey Land from us then the battle will become a war. 

There are hundreds of OHVs enthusiast that enjoy this area and I don't think they'll let go without a good fight.

SFWMD is the cause of several enviromental damages throughout the southern state.  Guys we need to wake up.  Ever since the Picayune Forest issue (aka Badluck / S. Golden Gate Estates ) these pr!cks are on an attack on OHV / ATVs.   

Thanks to Pr!ck Jeb Bush we are in this battle.   

WE ARE ASKING YOU GUYS TO PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GET INVOLVED.  I REPEAT DO SOMETHING !!!

[cheropride]

Honestly, I am new to this aspect, so could you give me some good stronge advise as to what I can do.  First let me expain one thing, it is hard sometimes for me to go to events due to the fact I run a business from home and I am have a young son.  But if there is anything that I can do say online or with letters, I would be more than happy to help.

Love to be more involved, give me a starting point. - Thanks

[Thrumud]

Honestly, I am new to this aspect, so could you give me some good stronge advise as to what I can do.  First let me expain one thing, it is hard sometimes for me to go to events due to the fact I run a business from home and I am have a young son.  But if there is anything that I can do say online or with letters, I would be more than happy to help.

Love to be more involved, give me a starting point. - Thanks

check your pm for my number, I'll explain.

[MachineDog]

Damn. If they get rid of holylands, this is one sport I will be leaving.

[AintSkeered]

Finger piers? Where would those go? I serioulsy doubt that we're talking about Everglades/Holeyland WMAs. They can have Rottenberger.

[digginfool]

Directly from the SFWMD website:

Project Description:

The project involves recreational enhancements to an existing Stormwater Treatment Area (STA) and includes earthwork, including removal of unsuitable subsoil excavation, paved parking areas, concrete sidewalks, pedestrian bridge, information kiosks (with a shelter), bathrooms, a boat ramp with finger piers, landscape improvements and access road improvements.

Directions:

The site can be accessed from the east (i.e. US 27 at the Broward/Palm Beach County line), through 5 miles of asphalt paved road.


You tell me where it is.

[AintSkeered]

Give us a weblink to your info and we'll find out. Don't see any info on SFWMD's website.

[UncleRico]

 "SFWMD is the DEBIL!!! "

[digginfool]

Really, now, you didn't truly believe they built that nice road and bridges just for us, did you?  Check this out regarding Picayune (Badluck):

 Project Description:

Project includes all labor, materials, and equipment necessary to remove existing roadways in the area bordered on the west by Merritt Canal, on the east by Prairie Canal, on the north by I-75 and on the south by the east-west portion of Prairie Canal. Roadways, adjacent swales, and spoils piles shall be re-graded to match undisturbed, pre-development elevations. It includes removal of vegetation in the work areas and stockpiling excess fill adjacent to existing canals.

They are eliminating us permanently from the lands they control.

[SomBch]

Point to ponder: Who in there right mind would travel all the way out  hwy27 to rent a pavillion to have a party , fish off a finger pier , or even go walking on paths  ? It sounds more like federal or state funds are available and need to be allocated before the end of the fiscal year or those funds wont be available in next years budget. Is this cause for alarm? Im not to sure, but I think it deserves a little attention and a possible call to state legislators as to there true intentions. I also believe that some have been misled as to the intentions of " enviromentalists" . In my opinion : without the help of " enviromentalists" we would have had Mecca farms become some huge business hub right next door to the Corbitt area.With out there help alot more houses would be built on lands we all used to ride on .Unfortunatley some would have you believe that its there fault you no longer have access to riding areas, yet whats in the place where we used to ride,.... HOMES!!!
Yeah , name one tree hugger that would dig that trade off.  I would rather side with the tree huggers cause you no what they stand for, elected officials well....they stand for what ever or who ever lines there pockets.     .02

[digginfool]

Here is the link to all current RFBs (Request For Bid) at SFWMD:

https://my.sfwmd.gov/portal/page?_pageid=1174,1896180,1174_1896602&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL&navpage=solicitationcalendars

Sorry Aintskeered, didn't notice your request earlier.

[UncleRico]

Do you know how many parks we have that just sit empty? I mean seriously, look at all the empty baseball fields, and soccer fields, and pavilions.

Start putting some recreational funds into some parks that people want to use....ATV parks, skate parks, etc.

It's time to step into the new century.

[Asphaltdragon]

All this talk of potentialy closing riding areas is the #2 reason I'm leaving South Florida

[SomBch]

uncle - you said it right, this lifestyle (muddin , trail riding etc.) gets treated like red headed step children(for the lack of a better term). They(state and local government) continue to look over this segment of our communities. And honestley its because we are so un-organized that its to our disadvantage. We have no voice , solely or collectively. sad but true.

[miamigirlrider]

I am going directly to the BIG BOY in SFWMD and if this is true, IT TIME FOR ACTION!!!

Get ready people because it will be a time for everyone to show support and really stand up!

[AintSkeered]

Okay, but, this might be a good thing. There's a lake/pond just north of the crossover where this plan might be nice.

[miamigirlrider]

OK I just spoke to SFWMD, this is 20 miles south of South Bay on US 27 and YES IT IS HOLEY LAND. The second bring at the end of the paved road across Holey Land.

I will talk to more people and ask them straight out what kind of crap is this?

Aintskeered, atv's are not compatible with pedestrians and parking lots. So this is NOT a good thing...

I will keep you all posted as I make my calls during the day before I go crazy on the Commissioners and media. 

[lswjth2]

I have been saying since day 1, that the SFWMD is our ANTI-CHRIST. I dont know where this project is, but i can tell you whatever land they have(312,000) acres, they will keep you out of it. JUst this weekend an area in lee county was also shut down. Now as for the funding, the WRDA bill that was justapproved gave these a$$ holes 350 million of your dollars for the PIcayune destruction, i dont know how much they got for the rest of their projects, I think they are 56??? in total.But here's where we have them by the balls,IF WE DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT,UNITE, AND START TAKING ACTION. Every year, they have to go back to congress and ask for next years money, if they dont get it, there screwed, unless the state ponies up the cash. Up to date, the state of florida has put in about 1 Billion  of our dollars. Here are some websites so you cna see all the LIES that have been fed to the public.I for one would want toi have a huge demonstration in front of their headquarters in West palm beach....


http://www.earthjustice.org/news/press/006/special-master-on-florida-everglades-restoration-issues-report-calling-for-additional-measures-to-reduce-pollution.html


http://www.everglades.org/spring2006.pdf

Start on page 4 of this one after the "everglades 21 coalition"

IT'S TIME THE PEOPLE IN THIS SITE WAKEUP AND FIGHT.THE OTHER FOLKS AT ATVMIAXTREME AND NORTHPORTOFFROAD ARE FIGHTING FOR EVERYONE AND NOT GETTING MUCH SUPPORT FROM THE PEOPLE HERE....

[miamigirlrider]

Theres a big preconstruction meeting being held on Monday August 14, 2006 at 10 am at the G370 pump station for all the contractors and bidders to find out about the construction.. Maybe we should pick this day to go out riding with lots of media!!!!!!

If they take this away from us we HAVE NOTHINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!! Ocala National Forest would be next!!!!

[DjLeOo]

I am going directly to the BIG BOY in SFWMD and if this is true, IT TIME FOR ACTION!!!

Get ready people because it will be a time for everyone to show support and really stand up!

Good Luck trying to get people from this website involved to help south florida in this cause !!!!!!

theres only a hand full that really gives a who !!!!!

 

[digginfool]

While our attempt to rally support to fight this project is noble, it is a lost cause.  By the time a project goes out to bid, all feasibility studies, engineering, project approval and earmarking of funds has already been completed.  This project is going to happen.  The only thing we can do is attempt to maintain access beyond the center.  However, the way I envision this happening, our parking area at the end of the paved road will serve as the site for the pavilion, bathrooms and parking area, giving them a convenient means of gating the levy on the south side and the bridge/road to the pump house on the north side.  It's been a long run and I will truly miss riding out there.  The bid package is $80.00, which is about normal for a project of that scope.  It's not the type of work my company does but I'm going to order a set of plans today.  I should have them in a few days and I'll let you know precisely how they intend to lay the site out.

[SomBch]

well put DF, we came across the same thing when the county decided to tear up peanut island.By the time you hear about it the wheels are in motion and its next to impossible to stop. The good news here is that this may not effect the riding out there at all, in fact it might be nice having sanitary bathrooms considering many camp out there.So, all may not be lost.

[miamigirlrider]

But you guys have forgotten that ATV's are not compatible to sidewalks, pedestrian bridges, parking lots!!!!!!!! In addition, you really think those nice clean bathrooms, parking lots, pavillion area is to let muddied up atv riders come mulk up the floors.... JUST READ THE DESCRIPTION ESCAVATION OF UNSUITABLE SOIL... = MUD MULK>

I dissagree with you on the process I work for Turner Construction/FDOT and when you want to stop a construction you can, take a look at the Miami Intermodal Center... ENUFF SAID!

You have the people that will sit there and watch things happens or the people who step in and make things happen.

I am not going to let them take our last spot.

[DjLeOo]

But you guys have forgotten that ATV's are not compatible to sidewalks, pedestrian bridges, parking lots!!!!!!!! In addition, you really think those nice clean bathrooms, parking lots, pavillion area is to let muddied up atv riders come mulk up the floors.... JUST READ THE DESCRIPTION ESCAVATION OF UNSUITABLE SOIL... = MUD MULK>

I dissagree with you on the process I work for Turner Construction/FDOT and when you want to stop a construction you can, take a look at the Miami Intermodal Center... ENUFF SAID!

You have the people that will sit there and watch things happens or the people who step in and make things happen.

I am not going to let them take our last spot.

Yuuuup !!! very well said !!!!!
thats there only way of pushing us out of Holeyland !!!!!!

We as citizens pay lots of Tax dollars on our quads !!!!
they need to designate a legal riding area in south Florida !!!
and we will push till the end !!!!

[SomBch]

With the sheer numbers that go out there on a weekly basis, the county or state is required to have sanitary bathrooms, no matter who is using them. That being said, all the other "ïmprovements"are possibly required as safety items. You forget that area is not just for atvs, people go hunting ,fishing, hiking,camping, and yes bird watching out there too. The inaction of state or local government not offering safe path ways for those not on motorized transport would be a huge liability.I think a look at the plans is in order before jumping to conclusions.  

Lets not also forget its a Wildlife Managment Area ... first, and a place to ride second!

[digginfool]

Okay, guys.  This turned out to be only a slight scare for us.  Turns out I was able to download the plan set for free from the internet.  The proposed site is north from where the pavement ends, at the end of the road on the lake.  There will be a gate on that road so that they can close the pavilion but our area at the bridge is beyond that point.  The facility is geared for those that want to launch boats and fish the lake and canals to the north.  There is also an observation area across a foot bridge for wildlife viewing.  That being said, it will now be more important than ever that we become good stewards of those lands.  The stupid sh*t going on out there must end (littering, reckless riding, maiming and killing ourselves, etc.).  With the improved facilities will come more people.  More people means more visibility and more ammo for them to close us down.  At this point, we must begin to police ourselves and also, it is vitally important that we start watching with a vengence what SFWMD has in the planning stages.  They could have easily put that project where we park by the bridge and used it to block access as I mentioned earlier in the thread.

[SomBch]

Its a good idea to check with us game and wildlife and florida game and wildlife considering its under there jursidiction as a wildlife managment area, and up to there dicression as to its uses.

[digginfool]

WMA or not, if it is a designated wetland, flood plain or water storage area, or anything to do with water, it will also fall under SFWMD control and as you saw at Picayune, they have the final say.

[cheropride]

Very well put diggin, it will become imperative that we not only pick-up after ourselves but the other nit-wits that trash the place.  If this trashing of Holeylands continue, it will be impossible for us to co-exist with others out there, because it is going to bring a spotlight on to us.  Hopefully, we could us this as a means to educate others about our sport.

PS - I read the pm and I will respond ASAP

[miamigirlrider]

I got confirmation that it is in the entrance of (Holey Land area) but again in the entrance where the paved area ends towards the right.

Now this is a portion of the response I got from SFWMD

"Regarding the ATV use near and around Holey Land this public access/ boat ramp will not affect the ORV use. This facility is not intended or designed for use by ORVs as it provides boating access to the exterior canals outside the STA and provides pedestrian and bicycle access into a portion of the STA internal levees."

So to answer the last thread stating for sanitary bathrooms "ha ha its not even for us". As for looking for the plans, thank you for ordering them digginfool, I know they cost money, and thank you for keeping us alert of this...

Better to be safe than sorry... Better to jump the gun than to get shot...  Well at least it shows SFWMD that we are in up to date with what is happening...

We really got to behave good now that we will be under the scope....

Thanks to all...

[FORD4X4GIRL]

As a civil engineer, I keep a subscription to several bid notification services.  The SFWMD is accepting bids for work at the end of 5 miles of paved roads at the Broward/Palm Beach County line.  Sounds like Holeylands/Rotenberger/Everglades WMA to me.  The project description is to build a pavilion, boat ramp with finger piers, information kiosks, bathrooms, demucking, paving, storm drainage and landscaping.  Based upon the SFWMD's actions over the last couple of years (closing Badluck and the area in Lee County last week), I fear that we will soon lose our area here.  With the improvements comes more visitors (read: environmentalists) who will not stand for our presence.  For those of you who wish to investigate on your own, the SFWMD Project Number is RFB6000000012, Harold A Campbell Public Use Facility.

Thank you for the heads up & the info .... I passed it on to the president of Florida Sportmans Conservation Assoc. and he said he would question SFWMD at the next WRAC meeting...

I don't think that SFWMD could truly take this area from us ATV'ers with out getting a very very large amount of resistance ....

[miamigirlrider]

I am still waiting for a response if indeed it will affect us in any way.. We just need to behave good like you guys mentioned, now even more than ever. I was advised that Aerial Photographies are being taken as we speak to show the damages done thru the trails.

So we must ride smart, safely and clean up so they do not get complaints about us.

[SomBch]

I got confirmation that it is in the entrance of (Holey Land area) but again in the entrance where the paved area ends towards the right.

Now this is a portion of the response I got from SFWMD

"Regarding the ATV use near and around Holey Land this public access/ boat ramp will not affect the ORV use. This facility is not intended or designed for use by ORVs as it provides boating access to the exterior canals outside the STA and provides pedestrian and bicycle access into a portion of the STA internal levees."

So to answer the last thread stating for sanitary bathrooms "ha ha its not even for us". As for looking for the plans, thank you for ordering them digginfool, I know they cost money, and thank you for keeping us alert of this...

Better to be safe than sorry... Better to jump the gun than to get shot...  Well at least it shows SFWMD that we are in up to date with what is happening...

We really got to behave good now that we will be under the scope....

Thanks to all...

To clarify again: My point was that there are certain criteria that must be met for the public with regard to but not limited to : handicap access, pedestrian paths, and yes bathrooms . These are generally needed when you open public areas.Wether or not the plans where intended for the use of atvers or for fishermen,hunters or pedestrians is irrelevent. When it comes to any park or public usage area you would be very naive to believe if tax dollars where there and could be spent to enlarge the project that they would not spend it. Proof is most public camping areas have bathrooms , that way bambi doesnt slip on your scat and hurt her hoof.

[Loven It]

I am still waiting for a response if indeed it will affect us in any way.. We just need to behave good like you guys mentioned, now even more than ever. I was advised that Aerial Photographies are being taken as we speak to show the damages done thru the trails.

So we must ride smart, safely and clean up so they do not get complaints about us.

My question you guys is how will this not affect you? Don't you guys agree it is just a matter of time once this plan goes into effect before other people are in this area and start complaining. Hunters/Bird watchers..we scare animals, bike and people walking on trails..they are afraid of being run over by us. Once someone parks with their atv in the "new parking area" watch out the complaints will fly.

Look at the bathroom: "It is not intended for designed for ORV users" as soon as someone see's one of us dirty and going into that bathroom the complaints will fly.

[SomBch]

i wouldnt jump to conclusions, if that where the case homeless people would be banned from public bathrooms

[Loven It]

i wouldnt jump to conclusions, if that where the case homeless people would be banned from public bathrooms

Sorry I do not feel I am jumping to conclusions.

Not sure what the point is or what you are trying to say about homeless people and the bathrooms..No one wants atv's anywhere anymore that is the point I was trying to make. That once more people start coming to the area it is bound to be a fight to have ATV use banned in general in the area.

[SomBch]

When you see housing developments being built south of 441 on hwy 27 than I would be concerned. The land out there is zoned agricultural for the most part and if its not its part of the preserve. When they start building houses they will run us out no matter how many clean up rides or rallies you stage . I  have lived here my whole life and know many planners, builders and policy makers and they tell me all the time if "we want it we get it". So , lets ride and when that day comes it comes.

[TxsRanger99]

Just for information Holeylands does NOT start at US27. That area is an STA (Storm Water Treatment Area) it is STA 3/4 I believe but not completely sure, I'll look that up.  That is owned by the SFWMD. Holeylands does not start until after the paved road where the levee splits. Holeyland,rotenberger, and the everglades area are completely owned and operated by the state (FWC). These pavilions being built are on the SFWMD property and should not affect holeyland other than you will pass them on your way out there. But they will bring more people closer to where the ATVer's are. Now mostly fisherman use the STA and when the season is open they have duck hunts on some of them. But if they put in walking trails and pavilions it will bring more of the general, non-hunting,non-fishing, non-riding, public to the area. Which could be good or bad, depends on how they percieve we act on the land. If they see people constantly getting hurt and trashing the land then, they will more than likely be against the atver's. More people means more public exposure, depends on how we act how the public will percieve us.

[digginfool]

The use of restroom facilities is really a non-issue.  The plans calls for composting-type restroom facilities (outhouses).  If there is any running water at all, it would be for a sink to wash your hands.  Plus, the dimensions shown on the plan is not much larger than a Porta-Jon.  I highly doubt anybody would be able to stay inside an outhouse long enough to take a 'sink bath.'  You would be better off jumping in the canal.

[FORD4X4GIRL]

I am still waiting for a response if indeed it will affect us in any way.. We just need to behave good like you guys mentioned, now even more than ever. I was advised that Aerial Photographies are being taken as we speak to show the damages done thru the trails.

So we must ride smart, safely and clean up so they do not get complaints about us.

My question you guys is how will this not affect you? Don't you guys agree it is just a matter of time once this plan goes into effect before other people are in this area and start complaining. Hunters/Bird watchers..we scare animals, bike and people walking on trails..they are afraid of being run over by us. Once someone parks with their atv in the "new parking area" watch out the complaints will fly.

Look at the bathroom: "It is not intended for designed for ORV users" as soon as someone see's one of us dirty and going into that bathroom the complaints will fly.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that the hunters dont want us there.... only because I know alot of people the ATV hunt hogs during season in holeylands & once gator season opens next week there will be hunters out there on atvs too .... I hunt hog on atvs & let me tell you that if they try to say that the hunters are complaining i know alot of people that hunt that have no problem & nothing better to do than to argue with SFWMD about ATVs in holeylands ....

[miamigirlrider]

Sombch I disagree with you. Every area in Miami that we have been banned from is a NON RESIDENTIAL area far from any public dwelling and still we are kicked out.

Just for the record NO ONE is SFWMD has answered my questions as to how and if this Construction will affect OHV riders as a matter of fact this is the response I got after passing the buck to different people was........
"Cary:  It is my understanding that an answer to your question is forthcoming.  Please be patient, I’m sure someone will be getting back to you shortly.  Nevertheless, from a Procurement perspective, your question warrants a response as it affects public use and it will be addressed in an addendum after the pre-bid meeting next week."

As someone else stated before here and so did SFWMD This facility is not intended or designed for use by ORVs

[AintSkeered]

Great debate, it keeps us all informed. Living where I-75 meets I-595, I ride Holeylands/Everglades WMA as much as anybody and would never want it to fall. We should all be vigilant. But, also be informed of the facts, not the hysteria. Otherwise, we'll take ignorant actions which will not earn us respectful attention to our concerns. The SFWMD is our Saddam Hussein! They own the area being discussed here and those other areas with the locked yellow gates(which some of us disregard, trespass on and vandalize). This 40 acre area they're talking about is too small and boring for us to use, but, it's adjacent to 70,000 acres of our land and we must keep a close on it. We expect hunters and fisherman to share the WMAs with us, but, we're not willing to share 40 acres with them?