Need Sources For Stories

[GeoMcGinn]

Hello,

I'm a reporter with the Norrth Port Sun, and I am covering the issue of ATV riding here, including the current enforcement by police and the proposed ATV and Camping ordinances.

I am interested in speaking with anyone who has challenged a ticket and won.

I am looking for people who were cited for riding on the roadway (FS. 316.2074(5)) where the description of the ticket says "riding on swale, right of way, etc.)

I need sources for a story I am writing, so I need input for my investigation.

Being a reporter, I can only guarantee fairness for all sides. That means I will be writing stories about people who have been terrorized by ATV riders. In all fairness, I have to present all sides of the issue.

For this story, I believe this statute is being incorrectly applied. However, without anyone who can document they successfully beat such a ticket, I have no case law to base anything on.

I can be reached via e-mail at gmcginn@sun-herald.com, or by phone at (941) 429-3000.

I hope to finish my investigation in a day or so before the June 19 meeting.

PS: I am looking for an attorney-member who can speak of trespass law and whether a city can pass an ordinance allowing the police to be agents of a landowner and require written permission. Help on this would be greatly appreciated.

----
George McGinn
Police Reporter
The North Port Sun
13644 S. Tamiami Trail
North Port, FL 34287

[Bigscrb15]

Mr. McGinn, I can not be of any assistance to you but I can thank you for your efforts. We know some atv'ers terrorize neighborhoods and disrespect others, however I am glad that you at least want to hear our side also. So thank you for trying to get information before reporting false information about our sport.

[PBSO_ATV_Deputy_4]

Mr. McGinn,
 
    Below are some of the definitions and statutes we refer to regarding OHV enforcement. The boundaries are basically property line to property line. Depending on the area, telephone poles and property owner fence lines help us define swale areas and right-of-ways. The use of OHVs is strictly confined to private property and sanctioned public/state properties. FS 316.2074(5), which is a non-moving infraction, is the proper charge when enforcing ATV use on public roadways, highways, streets, and right-of-ways. While some use 316.2074 for sidewalk use, I use the 316.1995(below) for sidewalk violations. This is a moving violation.
      Currently, our county does not have a specific ATV ordinance. As for trespassing, PBSO requires the property owner to sign a trespass affidavit and properly post or fence the property before enforcement takes place.
    I hope this has helped you out. Let me know if I can assist further.....
 
 
 
316.0003 Definitions-
 
(33)  PRIVATE ROAD OR DRIVEWAY.--Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (53)(b), any privately owned way or place used for vehicular travel by the owner and those having express or implied permission from the owner, but not by other persons.

 
53)  STREET OR HIGHWAY.--
(a)  The entire width between the boundary lines of every way or place of whatever nature when any part thereof is open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular traffic;

(b)  The entire width between the boundary lines of any privately owned way or place used for vehicular travel by the owner and those having express or implied permission from the owner, but not by other persons, or any limited access road owned or controlled by a special district, whenever, by written agreement entered into under s. 316.006(2)(b) or (3)(b), a county or municipality exercises traffic control jurisdiction over said way or place;

(c)  Any area, such as a runway, taxiway, ramp, clear zone, or parking lot, within the boundary of any airport owned by the state, a county, a municipality, or a political subdivision, which area is used for vehicular traffic but which is not open for vehicular operation by the general public; or

(d)  Any way or place used for vehicular traffic on a controlled access basis within a mobile home park recreation district which has been created under s. 418.30 and the recreational facilities of which district are open to the general public.

(47)  SIDEWALK.--That portion of a street between the curbline, or the lateral line, of a roadway and the adjacent property lines, intended for use by pedestrians.

316.1995  Driving upon sidewalk or bicycle path.--No person shall drive any vehicle other than by human power upon a bicycle path, sidewalk, or sidewalk area, except upon a permanent or duly authorized temporary driveway. A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a moving violation as provided in chapter 318.

 
D/S JOHN GIBSON # 4091
PBSO Wildlands Task Force
Contract Services

[CABLEGUY1]

Hello,

I'm a reporter with the Norrth Port Sun, and I am covering the issue of ATV riding here, including the current enforcement by police and the proposed ATV and Camping ordinances.

I am interested in speaking with anyone who has challenged a ticket and won.

I am looking for people who were cited for riding on the roadway (FS. 316.2074(5)) where the description of the ticket says "riding on swale, right of way, etc.)

I need sources for a story I am writing, so I need input for my investigation.

Being a reporter, I can only guarantee fairness for all sides. That means I will be writing stories about people who have been terrorized by ATV riders. In all fairness, I have to present all sides of the issue.

For this story, I believe this statute is being incorrectly applied. However, without anyone who can document they successfully beat such a ticket, I have no case law to base anything on.

I can be reached via e-mail at gmcginn@sun-herald.com, or by phone at (941) 429-3000.

I hope to finish my investigation in a day or so before the June 19 meeting.

PS: I am looking for an attorney-member who can speak of trespass law and whether a city can pass an ordinance allowing the police to be agents of a landowner and require written permission. Help on this would be greatly appreciated.

----                       Without trying to sound to pessimistic I really don't see anything positive.I actually think it would give us another black eye so to speak. Think about it,you are asking for specific incedents where people recieved tickets for riding on the street and who and how they beat the ticket. That shows us in a negative light.First of all you shouldn't be riding in the street and secondly if you beat that ticket then your'e undermining the justice system by using a traffic lawyer to beat the system by paying extra for getting out of breaking the law or you simply find a loophole to snake out of your wrong doings. You never mention anything about us needing more riding places or using ATVing for a source of fun safe family entertainment. How could you spin that into anything but a negative. People ride in the street because their stupid not because there are no riding areas. Please believe me when I say I'm not accusing you of anything wrong but this could be a perfect front to get members to boast about breaking the law and beating the system which as i stated earlier would be another black eye. If your intentions are to help us with are cause and not just point out the bad then please carry on with my many thanks.However are members need to think before they post something that could be used against us at any ordinance hearings or related issues. Please don't be offended but honestly we don't REALLY know who you are or what your agenda is for sure. Just being cautious. Thanks.
George McGinn
Police Reporter
The North Port Sun
13644 S. Tamiami Trail
North Port, FL 34287

[VForcedave]

I was thinking along the same lines as cable guy. Mr. McGinn did not mention how exciting and awesome our sport is and how we can be represented in a way to gain the same rights and pleasures as all the other outdoor sports have in this state. If his intentions are good and does not have a agenda to paint us in a bad light, I stand corrected.   

[Old_School]

[
----                       Without trying to sound to pessimistic I really don't see anything positive.I actually think it would give us another black eye so to speak. Think about it,you are asking for specific incedents where people recieved tickets for riding on the street and who and how they beat the ticket. That shows us in a negative light.First of all you shouldn't be riding in the street and secondly if you beat that ticket then your'e undermining the justice system by using a traffic lawyer to beat the system by paying extra for getting out of breaking the law or you simply find a loophole to snake out of your wrong doings. You never mention anything about us needing more riding places or using ATVing for a source of fun safe family entertainment. How could you spin that into anything but a negative. People ride in the street because their stupid not because there are no riding areas. Please believe me when I say I'm not accusing you of anything wrong but this could be a perfect front to get members to boast about breaking the law and beating the system which as i stated earlier would be another black eye. If your intentions are to help us with are cause and not just point out the bad then please carry on with my many thanks.However are members need to think before they post something that could be used against us at any ordinance hearings or related issues. Please don't be offended but honestly we don't REALLY know who you are or what your agenda is for sure. Just being cautious. Thanks.

[/quote]

+1. Agreed. History doesn't lie. Look at all the other dozens of articals from new reporters on the topic of ATV's. All of them showing our sport as a menace to the environment and the community. Why should this article be  different? Not trying to discredit your efforts but given the statistics, IMO the atv community has to view these items at face value. -Mark

[Loven It]

Found a few articles he has written - I think he is trying to help us!

Meeting tonight for those in this area. Read link.
http://www.sun-herald.com/NewsArchive2/061406/np2.htm?date=061406&story=np2.htm

Article that seems similar to what he is trying to do now.
http://www.sun-herald.com/NewsArchive2/051906/tp7np8.htm?date=051906&story=tp7np8.htm


http://www.sun-herald.com/NewsArchive2/020405/tp6ch10.htm?date=020405&story=tp6ch10.htm

[GeoMcGinn]

hello,

I can see why you would think it would look bad. But part of my job is to also make sure government does enforcement correctly.

We know ATV riders are getting tickets by the boatload. In North Port, 44 percent of ATV contacts result in a warning or citation since Jan 1 of this year (103 out of 238 contacts.) 71% were issued tickets as opposed to warnings.

I'm just trying to understand the issues from both sides, and will respect you feelings about not talking.

----
George McGinn
Police Reporter
The North Port Sun
13644 S. Tamiami Trail
North Port, FL 34287

[gery350]

hello,

I can see why you would think it would look bad. But part of my job is to also make sure government does enforcement correctly.

We know ATV riders are getting tickets by the boatload. In North Port, 44 percent of ATV contacts result in a warning or citation since Jan 1 of this year (103 out of 238 contacts.) 71% were issued tickets as opposed to warnings.

I'm just trying to understand the issues from both sides, and will respect you feelings about not talking.

----
George McGinn
Police Reporter
The North Port Sun
13644 S. Tamiami Trail
North Port, FL 34287

i believe we all appreciate trying to give our side of the story as well.

you want a real story. - how about how florida is one of the leading states in atv sales yet we have hardly  nowhere to ride.(kind of an oxymoron). but the real story is whats happening with all the tax/title money the state is collectingfrom atv sales which were supposed to be used to give us more riding areas. seems like someones filling up their pockets. thats the real story.

[GeoMcGinn]

I will look into that.

George.

[05greengriz]

I will try to get a hold of my inlaws in np with a few more friends to attend the meeting also.

[05greengriz]

Here ya go George, Eric a member on the site posted this a while back. Maybe this will help with gery350's post . Where is all the money going??

http://www.floridatrailriders.org/articles/sales_by_county_31dec05_data.pdf

[MachineDog]

I agree with the thing on sales and no riding areas, but another thing I don't understand is the law on needing to be 16 to ride anything bigger than a 90. Trying to fit a 15 year old on a 90 is insane, it's like fitting a pineapple in a pickle jar. I understand 15 and under should NOT be riding 800s and such unless very experianced. But seriously, they need to up it to atleast 125, or even 250 for 12 and up.They stated that you have to lean in on a quad to keep it from rolling over when turning and that anyone under 16 can not understand how to do this??! (Trying to find the pdf now) They also stated alot of information on 660s and how comparisons and reviews said the BF750 was a monstrous machine at 600lbs but could still kick up dirt like a sport bike and what not. They said no 16 and under child should be allowed on such a machine and I agree with that. But they offered no information on 250s or 125s. Seat heights on such vehicles or anything. Anyway, as for why we ride on the streets, there's nowhere else to ride. We stay mostly on the back roads though next to canals since it's not safe to go onto streets. It sucks having to worry about cops stopping you all the time out here just having a little fun. It's not like it endangers anyones lives riding around on the dirt roads near our house. Barely any cars anywho. I think that we should be allowed to ride on the back roads and dirt roads around here as long as you be respectful of everyone living here. And also, we keep under 25 mph as a rule with all of us. Only time the speedo goes faster than that is when our tires are spinning in the mud behind our house.

[LakeMaryKid]

I agree with the thing on sales and no riding areas, but another thing I don't understand is the law on needing to be 16 to ride anything bigger than a 90. Trying to fit a 15 year old on a 90 is insane, it's like fitting a pineapple in a pickle jar. I understand 15 and under should NOT be riding 800s and such unless very experianced. But seriously, they need to up it to atleast 125, or even 250 for 12 and up.They stated that you have to lean in on a quad to keep it from rolling over when turning and that anyone under 16 can not understand how to do this??! (Trying to find the pdf now) They also stated alot of information on 660s and how comparisons and reviews said the BF750 was a monstrous machine at 600lbs but could still kick up dirt like a sport bike and what not. They said no 16 and under child should be allowed on such a machine and I agree with that. But they offered no information on 250s or 125s. Seat heights on such vehicles or anything. Anyway, as for why we ride on the streets, there's nowhere else to ride. We stay mostly on the back roads though next to canals since it's not safe to go onto streets. It sucks having to worry about cops stopping you all the time out here just having a little fun. It's not like it endangers anyones lives riding around on the dirt roads near our house. Barely any cars anywho. I think that we should be allowed to ride on the back roads and dirt roads around here as long as you be respectful of everyone living here. And also, we keep under 25 mph as a rule with all of us. Only time the speedo goes faster than that is when our tires are spinning in the mud behind our house.

It isnt a law that someone under 16 cant ride anything bigger than a 90. It is a recommendation by the manufacturer so they cant get sued if someone under 16 is hurt on something over their recommended size.

[jetski dawg]

listen,i can testify that george is on the up and up.i got a chance to speak with him during the north port clean-up. and as a good reporter does,he reports both sides fairly.. he writes for the local paper here in NP and not an ATV mag, so your gonna hear the other side of the story....but please help him so we can have our side heard... as far as personal problem with the police, all i have had  happened to me is threats with fines and arrest. i usually have my kids with me, so i just pack up so they dont see dad get arrested..being a member of the NPORA. we are tring to get a legal riding area (like croom) close to NP.. june 19th at 6pm, the commisioners will be voting on an ordinance that will ban atv/off-road riding and camping in north port..if you can, attend to support our sport...thanks, jetski

[duroc825]

Fair? We don't need fair! Heck our own government doesn't play fair when it comes to ATV's! One official state run riding area in one of the leading ATV selling states that costs and additional 60 bucks a year to ride with poor at best maintenance and portolet quality bathroom facilities! Yeah real fair! And oh yeah ole George will look into it like so many others and things will be back to the same old way when all the hooplah wears off. To heck with this sate ever helping out ATV riders, ride Ocala, at least the Feds act like they're interested!

[jetski dawg]

well ill tell ya duro, i just got done working back to back 16hr days cuz of the storm,and yet i found time to attend a meeting to get a legal riding area and not let the city of north port take any more of our riding spots/rights away.. what have you done besides paying $60??.. ocala's riding area is shrinking fast..did you call or write your congressman to let you know how you feel??.. or are you like the others that sit around and let others fight your battles and cry ***threre's no place to ride!!!boo hoo!! its not fair!!***

[MachineDog]

I agree with the thing on sales and no riding areas, but another thing I don't understand is the law on needing to be 16 to ride anything bigger than a 90. Trying to fit a 15 year old on a 90 is insane, it's like fitting a pineapple in a pickle jar. I understand 15 and under should NOT be riding 800s and such unless very experianced. But seriously, they need to up it to atleast 125, or even 250 for 12 and up.They stated that you have to lean in on a quad to keep it from rolling over when turning and that anyone under 16 can not understand how to do this??! (Trying to find the pdf now) They also stated alot of information on 660s and how comparisons and reviews said the BF750 was a monstrous machine at 600lbs but could still kick up dirt like a sport bike and what not. They said no 16 and under child should be allowed on such a machine and I agree with that. But they offered no information on 250s or 125s. Seat heights on such vehicles or anything. Anyway, as for why we ride on the streets, there's nowhere else to ride. We stay mostly on the back roads though next to canals since it's not safe to go onto streets. It sucks having to worry about cops stopping you all the time out here just having a little fun. It's not like it endangers anyones lives riding around on the dirt roads near our house. Barely any cars anywho. I think that we should be allowed to ride on the back roads and dirt roads around here as long as you be respectful of everyone living here. And also, we keep under 25 mph as a rule with all of us. Only time the speedo goes faster than that is when our tires are spinning in the mud behind our house.

It isnt a law that someone under 16 cant ride anything bigger than a 90. It is a recommendation by the manufacturer so they cant get sued if someone under 16 is hurt on something over their recommended size.

Actually there are laws in other states where this is true. I don't think florida has a restriction, yet. Also in other states there is a law against -8 year olds riding OHVs.

[Flashback]

  With the way land prices have gone up in this state and the amount of money investers make when housing developements are put in, the taxes they collected from us when we registered isn't going to go far in purchasing the amount of land a good riding area would need. 

One option a couple of friends and I were discussing was talking to St John's Water Management about putting a trail along the St. Johns river, but we never heard anything back from the letter that was sent in. 

It's going to be a real uphill battle to get any decent riding areas in Florida.

[duroc825]

Dawg,  not all of us on this site are priveleged enough to be like you and be superheroes. I too work many hours(construction) and also raise cattle, so I am very busy too. One purpose of this message board speaks for itself, MESSAGE, by crying as you call it, it is part of doing something about things. If no one complains there would be no call to change issues such as these as I see it. Think about it before ya try to belittle me next time. I guess you  have run for and /or hold some political position because otherwise I guess you must just "cry" about things you don't like about our government. Do you get totally involved in everything you have issues with? Or are you like many others that "cry" about them. Squeaky wheel gets the grease! By my "crying" maybe someone reading my comments agrees with me and has more time, resources, skills, etc. to actually take it a step further. I apologize that it upsets you that I'm not the perfect outstanding responsible citizen that you are but hey I'm fine with that. I'm not perfect

[jetski dawg]

Dawg,  not all of us on this site are priveleged enough to be like you and be superheroes. I too work many hours(construction) and also raise cattle, so I am very busy too. One purpose of this message board speaks for itself, MESSAGE, by crying as you call it, it is part of doing something about things. If no one complains there would be no call to change issues such as these as I see it. Think about it before ya try to belittle me next time. I guess you  have run for and /or hold some political position because otherwise I guess you must just "cry" about things you don't like about our government. Do you get totally involved in everything you have issues with? Or are you like many others that "cry" about them. Squeaky wheel gets the grease! By my "crying" maybe someone reading my comments agrees with me and has more time, resources, skills, etc. to actually take it a step further. I apologize that it upsets you that I'm not the perfect outstanding responsible citizen that you are but hey I'm fine with that. I'm not perfect

no, im not a superhero..and when a reporter that is tring to get our side of the story,i dont throw rocks at him...croom is a 5hr drive round trip and with 6 quads, gets pretty expensive. plus like you said in your MESSAGE, the bathrooms are bad and is overcrowded on the weekends.. so my family and i drive 2miles  to an abandoned subdivision to ride where there is miles of trails and no homes built, just to be harrassed by the police... so,heres your chance to be a perfect outstanding citizen..call the north port commisioners and ask them why tax dollars are used against a family sport. i will only take you the same amount of time that you used to post a MESSAGE in here