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UncleRico
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« on: June 08, 2006, 07:59:53 AM » |
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Why do you think it is that Honda has 5 of the top ten spots in the point standings in the ATV pro motocross class (not to mention the top two locked up)?
Suzuki has 3 of the top 10 spots and Yamaha has spots 8 and 10. I keep hearing how fast the YFZ is and how great a bike it is, but I wonder why they can't finish in the top 5.
Do you guys think it's the riders, or the factory support, or are the Honda's that much better than the other two?
Just curious.
(Oh, I may be a little biased, btw)
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Ida_Mann
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« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2006, 08:02:46 AM » |
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I'd be curious about the attrition of the quads,,,,and I wonder how many times each brand falls out of a race or doesn't finish well due to mechanical breakdown.........
Id@
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Id@ M@nn www.facebook.com/IdaShotMe'99 Honda 400EX ATP'd (quietly making noise) '02 Honda Foreman Rubicon '00 Honda TRX90 8 X 20 Enclosed hauler/camper "Show me a smooth operation and I'll show you someone who is hiding mistakes, real boats rock." |
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Rellimniets
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« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2006, 08:50:09 AM » |
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I grew up on Honda's myself, my Father swore on anything Honda and I have never ever had any kind of issue with anything Honda, I think they build a nice peice of equipment that is meant to last. Now as far the racing portion of this is concerned, I dont do much of it, but any bike/Quad can be built after market to match each other, but whats underneath it all is what counts.
For me that is Honda and I stand by this.
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Southern4x4
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« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2006, 08:54:11 AM » |
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Why do you think it is that Honda has 5 of the top ten spots in the point standings in the ATV pro motocross class (not to mention the top two locked up)?
Suzuki has 3 of the top 10 spots and Yamaha has spots 8 and 10. I keep hearing how fast the YFZ is and how great a bike it is, but I wonder why they can't finish in the top 5.
Do you guys think it's the riders, or the factory support, or are the Honda's that much better than the other two?
Just curious.
(Oh, I may be a little biased, btw)
im a honda guy all the way but remember it depends on the rider |
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[><]Southern by the grace of God[><]
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arod
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« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2006, 10:04:00 AM » |
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i think it is factory money. john natalie has said many times he liked his yfz better than the honda, but honda writes him the big checks. when suzuki was leading the way with factory money they were up top. now honda is putting up big money so suzuki has competition. yamaha does not have the big money in mx which is why they are at the bottom. yamaha? they are putting their factory money in gncc xc racing. which has them dominating the xc series for the last few years. i think when yamaha gets in more with the mx program, they will be a force to be reckoned with. the YFZ did set the new standard FIRST. just my .02 point of view.
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VForcedave
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« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2006, 11:26:56 AM » |
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Since the 450 Suzuki is relatively new, I think they will be the one to beat in the near future. I half way follow the race scene and from what I have read and seen Honda will not be up there very long. Correct me if I am wrong.
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2003 Chevy Duramax 100+K and still cruising. 18mpg.
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RAD 450r
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« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2006, 05:50:32 PM » |
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Honda has a huge continegency program, they payout a quarter million for all motorsports and I think about $105,000 for ATV's a year. For xc raicng everbody rides honda's in the pro's that arent factory because of their program. Yokley and Ballance ride the others because their factory backed, not sure about borich. For motocross same thing, except spader,brown,gust,jones and ellis all ride others than honda, that leaves the rest..Honda. Anybody could correct me if im wrong
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Chillinthemost
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« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2006, 09:04:33 PM » |
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YFZ FTR B-Open #12
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eric
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« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2006, 01:13:35 AM » |
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I agree Chillin and I have ridden all 3 on the trails  I give Honda a very close 2nd. |
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klutchbuster400
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« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2006, 01:20:47 AM » |
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Yamahas feel like they have more power, but obviously the lt-r has better handling. Havent rode a 450r yet  |
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eric
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« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2006, 01:22:29 AM » |
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Yamahas feel like they have more power, but obviously the lt-r has better handling. Havent rode a 450r yet I think they might hit the hardest although all have good power. Again I have only ridden them on the trails all stock. |
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1FasterBlaster
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« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2006, 01:34:19 AM » |
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I grew up on Yamaha. My Dad rode nothing but Yamaha's.Then I rode all the honda three wheelers.Once I got on quads, I of course wanted a Yamaha.Started on a Blaster, now I have a LTZ400. I'm actually very glad I do. It rides very fast, and I actually passed someone on a YFZ. Gotta luv reverse too!
It's not the quad...but the rider!!
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Dr.Dirt
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« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2006, 02:34:47 AM » |
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I grew up on Yamaha. My Dad rode nothing but Yamaha's.Then I rode all the honda three wheelers.Once I got on quads, I of course wanted a Yamaha.Started on a Blaster, now I have a LTZ400. I'm actually very glad I do. It rides very fast, and I actually passed someone on a YFZ. Gotta luv reverse too!
It's not the quad...but the rider!!
I've done that in the woops on my Blaster. Either the rider sucked, or was just tired, because theres no way that I could beat a good rider on a YFZ with my Blaster lol. |
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Old_School
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« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2006, 03:03:37 PM » |
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95% of the race is the quad. The other 5% is the rider................
Better make that 5% count.
All in the rider folks. -Mark
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90' LT500R Quadzilla
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sweetrider215
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« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2006, 03:29:07 PM » |
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i will stick with yamaha i love mine lol
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yamaha big bear 400 oc 4wd 05
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MadMudder
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« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2006, 04:16:45 PM » |
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Ok, im no racer. But I do allot of research and read all the magazines. When your talking about this kind of racing, you talking about super modded quads. I mean the frames aren't even the same as stock or even close to stock. Plus the rules are so strict to level the playing field that the guy next to you doesn't have a huge advantage over you. So I think it boils down to money and rider skill. Almost every one of the professional racers are extremly tallented. The only time it really matters what your riding is when your talking about the stock classes or low mods or whatever there called. Then it starts to really matter whats under you.
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Chuck_Norris
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« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2006, 05:47:49 PM » |
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arod
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« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2006, 07:40:45 PM » |
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the frames are stock,maybe gusseted. kory ellis runs a stock swingarm and so was doug gust up at gatorback.
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Exmx54
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« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2006, 07:59:40 AM » |
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Yamaha is my choice, the Honda's are good bikes too. I'm not a fan of the LTR.
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Fox17
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« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2006, 07:18:09 PM » |
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a lot of it is the rider. look at motocross. ricky carmichael has raced kawasaki honda and suzuki. he has won championships on all of them. 2 perfect seasons on the honda btw. jeremy mcgrath has ridden for yamaha and honda and won championships on both. the bike matters but the rider is the most important.
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LT-R450ApK
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« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2006, 12:04:10 PM » |
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i heard in ocala them boys got them all stock LTR's Runnin
Maybe just a rumor though
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Zuk 4Fiddy Lots O Stuff
Faster to list whats stock
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4fittyr
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« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2006, 09:36:36 PM » |
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it's all business win on sunday !!sell on monday! rider and machine combo
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if u can't be good be good at it
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trx#9
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« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2006, 09:52:13 PM » |
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i think it is factory money. john natalie has said many times he liked his yfz better than the honda, but honda writes him the big checks. when suzuki was leading the way with factory money they were up top. now honda is putting up big money so suzuki has competition. yamaha does not have the big money in mx which is why they are at the bottom. yamaha? they are putting their factory money in gncc xc racing. which has them dominating the xc series for the last few years. i think when yamaha gets in more with the mx program, they will be a force to be reckoned with. the YFZ did set the new standard FIRST. just my .02 point of view.
John Natalie isn't on the honda payroll. He gets free bikes and thats about it. The only true factory team is suzuki. John Natalie didn't even have a mechanic at the second round of the WSPN - (espn) series. His sponsor had to find a mechanic for him at the race track to help him out and luckly Mike from A.T.P. racing was there and filled in for the weekend. Some factory team, huh. While suzuki had 10 factory mechanics working on Doug Gusts and Jerimiah Jones bikes. Yamaha has about the same deal as honda, they give free bikes out and no factory assistants, but that will shortly change after this ESPN series blows the sport up to Dirt Bike statis. Right now the Yamaha motor sucks thats why they can't keep up. There motor can't take a lot of compression like the honda's 14 to 1 and even 15 to 1 set ups. The yamaha's cranks blow out with anything higher than 13 to 1. There for Yamaha's only putting out low 50's horse power numbers, while the honda's are around the 60 hp. mark. Sorry yamaha fans, they need to fix there crank problems before they can keep up.  |
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53yfz450
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« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2006, 10:01:27 PM » |
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then why does pat brown pull tons of holeshots.  i wouldnt say they SUCK i would say they arent as reliable.  becasue they dont suck. ill give it 2 you them hondas are fast but so are the yamahas. but i think at the pro stats they all are fast and puting out tons of HP. ive seen a scatered winning of holeshots. in texas lysinger got the holeshot in moto1 and in moto 2 it was brown and ellis up front. but other rounds its hondas. only latey has suzuki been getting them. |
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trx#9
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« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2006, 10:43:41 PM » |
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Then why are the yamie riders jumping ship. Pretty soon there going to be nothing but honda's and suzuki's. Pat brown doesn't pull tons of holeshots I think he has maybe one or two all year. Remember the holeshot 50% motor 50% rider. On the track is were the torque of the honda motors pull away from the yamies. The suzuki kinda in the middle of the road power wise. |
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53yfz450
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« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2006, 10:51:26 PM » |
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well i know many are leaving yammi. but the ones that left recently were luburgh and creech. but they werent factory. suzuki just has a better program i guess. i dont have a problem with hondas. i like them im just used 2 riding the YFZ. when i rode yours that one night ive got 2 give it 2 you it was fast.  but i just feel more comfortable on the yammi.  |
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trx#9
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« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2006, 11:04:50 PM » |
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Yamies are good. they need to fix there crank wows though. Its funny that they lowered there compression from 05 to the 06 models instead of changing the crank and rod problems. If I were to start over I would buy a suzuki. All you need is about 1500 bucks and your completely race ready. Instead of the honda's and yamies that need about 10,000 bucks. Plus i rather support a company that supporting the sport.
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53yfz450
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« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2006, 11:12:21 PM » |
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true. and you would think yammi would do the oil mod.  i mean they already have the spot there 2 do it so why dont they. but whatever. |
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klutchbuster400
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« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2006, 11:25:10 PM » |
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Then why are the yamie riders jumping ship. Pretty soon there going to be nothing but honda's and suzuki's. Pat brown doesn't pull tons of holeshots I think he has maybe one or two all year. Remember the holeshot 50% motor 50% rider. On the track is were the torque of the honda motors pull away from the yamies. The suzuki kinda in the middle of the road power wise. Because Honda is putting out a bigger pay check, read posts, this was already said. |
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53yfz450
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« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2006, 11:27:46 PM » |
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actually no they arent. read post this was already said.lol i think far is the only factory honda rider right. |
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klutchbuster400
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« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2006, 11:41:49 PM » |
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actually no they arent. read post this was already said.lol i think far is the only factory honda rider right. lol dang, i thought that was the last post, i didnt realize a second page, that was a dee dee dee moment huh? |
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Pro52R
Junior Member
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Blazin
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« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2006, 12:32:55 AM » |
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wonder how the new Kawi will perform? I eman after all it has the industry's 1st aluminum frame YFZ set the benchmark? Why does everyone seem to forget cannondale?I mean sure they only lasted 3 yrs...but c'mon...it was the only true race ready qaud...all it needed was fuel and numbers... Hell the LTR still needs parts to be complete race ready.. And whats with all the magazines saying EFI this Aluminum frame that...uhh that shyt's been out since 2001..but onlu Zuk gets the glory or Kawi gets the frame?wtf? |
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trx#9
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« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2006, 08:22:18 PM » |
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wonder how the new Kawi will perform? I eman after all it has the industry's 1st aluminum frame YFZ set the benchmark? Why does everyone seem to forget cannondale?I mean sure they only lasted 3 yrs...but c'mon...it was the only true race ready qaud...all it needed was fuel and numbers... Hell the LTR still needs parts to be complete race ready.. And whats with all the magazines saying EFI this Aluminum frame that...uhh that shyt's been out since 2001..but onlu Zuk gets the glory or Kawi gets the frame?wtf? The cannondale's were very unrealible and strangely made. Which made it hard to work on and hard to get parts for. The company going under didn't help either. There motors are fast though, for stock.  |
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Pro52R
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Blazin
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« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2006, 05:38:09 PM » |
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unreliable?
Oh so lets base our facts on the magazines and the maybe 500 ppl who have spoke out about them..
I know of handful of Dales that have been in service since Day 1....never blown and race frequently...
Yah there are a bicycle company and jumped ship and started making dirtbikes and atv's w/ no prior knowledge of it..and I must say they did a pretty fine job..
Hell if they were still around I could just imagine the stuff that would be out..carbon fiber axles,etc
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53yfz450
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« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2006, 07:53:14 PM » |
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unreliable?
Oh so lets base our facts on the magazines and the maybe 500 ppl who have spoke out about them..
I know of handful of Dales that have been in service since Day 1....never blown and race frequently...
Yah there are a bicycle company and jumped ship and started making dirtbikes and atv's w/ no prior knowledge of it..and I must say they did a pretty fine job..
Hell if they were still around I could just imagine the stuff that would be out..carbon fiber axles,etc that would be funny  |
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Pro52R
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Blazin
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« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2006, 11:09:14 PM » |
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It was a reality...
I'll find some pics for you...
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klutchbuster400
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« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2006, 11:10:07 PM » |
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wont those snap easy |
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53yfz450
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« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2006, 11:10:35 PM » |
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It was a reality...
I'll find some pics for you...
please do |
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Pro52R
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Blazin
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« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2006, 11:12:55 PM » |
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53yfz450
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« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2006, 11:14:03 PM » |
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 was it solid carbon.
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Pro52R
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Blazin
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« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2006, 11:16:00 PM » |
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yes
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53yfz450
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« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2006, 11:17:03 PM » |
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wow im surprised they dont break easy. do they |
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53yfz450
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« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2006, 11:19:47 PM » |
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Hondarider22
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« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2006, 11:27:49 PM » |
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haha thats the coolest toliet ive ever seen |
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