ONF Appeal Meeting - one in our favor

[needforspeed]

Appeal Meeting with USFS 03-17-06
 
 
 
 
  First off, I'd like to thank Carla Boucher for flying into our State to present our case officially to the Forest Service.  Her time speant on this project is much appreciated and quite refreshing.

FL4WDA's appeal letter
UFWDA's appeal letter

The USFS contacted Carla Boucher of United Four Wheel Drive and setup a meeting to discuss our appeal with some of the decision makers of the Access Designation.  Those in attendance are shown below (spelling is believed to be accurate):

Carla Boucher, United Four Wheel Drive
Jason Kawaja, Florida Four Wheel Drive
Jennifer Hawkins, Florida Four Wheel Drive
David Harris, USFS
Will Ebaugh, USFS
Bret Bush, USFS
Harlod Shenk, USFS
Rick Lint, USFS

The four counts in United's appeal letter we discussed for the majority of our meeting while some discussions spun off at times concerning various aspects of implementation of the Access Designation Plan and such.  Please refer to United's appeal letter (link above) to assist making sense of what is below.

What follows are portions of notes I took during the meeting. Far more was discussed however these are some of the points of interests to most of our members, feel free to ask questions on these or other issues.


Concentrated Use Areas were defined by the FS as "areas" of high impact, could be a section of trail, intersection of another trail, mud hole, water hole, pond, sand pit, etc.
The Concentrated Use Areas were identified after the workgroup was concluded (public involvement).
There was no analysis conducted as to whether each Concentrated Use Area needed to be closed or remained open, Rodman Sand Pit was left open from what appears to be convinence.
The milage of unclassified roads to remain open (or to be closed) as listed in the FEIS is likely inaccurate and needs ammending. (They listed more miles closed than the Impact Statement showed as existing)
It was shown (proven in the meeting) that the number of unclassified roads to remain open (or to be closed) was predetermined.
Closed trails will not be blocked or signed unless it is deteremined that there is visitor confusion when reading a map and riding the trail.
The policy of "Closed Unless Posted Open" was done out of ease of signage/enforcement.
The change in term from "Concentrated Use Area" to "Day Use Area" does in fact indicate the FS wanting to close off those areas for night use.

The meeting was anticipated by FL4WDA to have permitted far more interest in our appeal than a lecture on how the Forest Service is attempting to correct many years of failure to achieve their goals and purpose for the Ocala National Forest.  While FL4WDA is sympathetic to the intent of the FEIS and to the charge the Forest Service has we also feel strongly about sustaining a reasonable amount of recreation in an area that our members have graciously volunteered numerous hours of assistance and continue to.  It appeared rather evident that our appeal points and further discussion about them (validating our reasoning) are to be denied.  Where we go from here is being discussed.

 
 
 

[Ida_Mann]

can you explain a bit for us who this lady is that I'm guessing went to have a meeting with the forestry service people?

I recognize Bret Bush's name cause I met him out at Rodman Pit a little while back, but I don't know the other names.

and maybe explain what this meeting was supposed to be about in a shorter form?

Id@

[needforspeed]

http://www.fl4wda.com/pdf/2006_feis_appeal_UFWDA.pdf   This is the actual appeal.

The person or lady is the attorney for the National Jeep Association, and Jason is President. The National Jeep Association appealed the Final Decision of the Forest that happened in December of 2005. If you remember after the final decision of record was recorded there was a 45 day appeal process. The National Jeep Association was one of the appeals, along with an environmental group, and someone else.

Will Ebaugh from Tallahassee, Rick Lent from the Seminole District, Bret Bush from Lake Geroge District, I don't know who the other two USFS people are. The USFS people were involved with the decision on the trails from the start. I don't know who Jennifer Hawkins is from the Jeep Association.

The below issues were not resolved. The Jeep Association and the USFS could not come to an agreement on these issues. There is a 30 day peroid on which the USFS and the Jeep Association can still come to an agreement, before it goes into aribitration, and or goes to court. If  this goes to court it maybe years before a trail system get put into place, or the other alternative is, the USFS might just close the forest.

What does that mean for us, the trail system will stay the same, until the issues can be resolved. The above information was taken of the Florida Jeep Association website. The actual appeal in pdf format is at the top of this page. The jeepers want all or a good portion of the trails that was designated to close to remain open.

That is my interpetation of this.

The appeal from the Jeep Association had many concerns as follows:

Appeal Meeting with USFS 03-17-06
 
 
What follows are portions of notes I took during the meeting. Far more was discussed however these are some of the points of interests to most of our members, feel free to ask questions on these or other issues.


Concentrated Use Areas were defined by the FS as "areas" of high impact, could be a section of trail, intersection of another trail, mud hole, water hole, pond, sand pit, etc.
The Concentrated Use Areas were identified after the workgroup was concluded (public involvement).
There was no analysis conducted as to whether each Concentrated Use Area needed to be closed or remained open, Rodman Sand Pit was left open from what appears to be convinence.
The milage of unclassified roads to remain open (or to be closed) as listed in the FEIS is likely inaccurate and needs ammending. (They listed more miles closed than the Impact Statement showed as existing)
It was shown (proven in the meeting) that the number of unclassified roads to remain open (or to be closed) was predetermined.
Closed trails will not be blocked or signed unless it is deteremined that there is visitor confusion when reading a map and riding the trail.
The policy of "Closed Unless Posted Open" was done out of ease of signage/enforcement.
The change in term from "Concentrated Use Area" to "Day Use Area" does in fact indicate the FS wanting to close off those areas for night use.

[Ida_Mann]

thank you for summing that up.

Id@

[eric]

Thanks for the info. Keep us posted on how we can help

[needforspeed]

Essentailly the forest service screwed up the orginal DEIS - and the jeep asscoiation is asking for another DEIS to be done. The forest service has quite a bit of work to do, which means for the time being there is no trail system in place.

[Honda328i]

Yes, there is no trail system in place, but when I was at Scrub a few days ago, there are sure a lot of new "No riding" signs everywhere

[needforspeed]

Does the signs say no riding or no motor vehicles or what

[eric]

I saw white signs on wood posts that said "no motor vehicles" not to far from Scrub along the pipeline that crosses 573. About a month before in the sinkhole turned sandpit off 573 (powerlines) they had hung what looked like plastic yellow signs as well but I forgot what they said? I do remember I left the area after reading them because they basically said keep out.

[needforspeed]

Thanks for the message. That stinks. So that is the way they are going to close the trails.