I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE

[Moose]

Oh this thread is being watched, by many, trust me. You know what, the young children are watching also. Don't they copy us older ones in their actions as they grow up?

[SkyHighT100]

Thank you SkyHigh!!

Anytime! Someone had to say it, because this is truely getting rediculous.

[Loven It]

I'm kind of amazed that this thread hasnt been deleted/locked yet. All I see is this as is a bickering about religion and politics... arent those no-nos on the discussion boards? We all know that this thread can go back and forth for 10000000 pages... everyone has thier own opinion and considering the gravity of the topic, I HIGHLY doubt anyone is going to change thier opinions anytime soon, not that anyone should.

Why should this be locked it is not a heated, nasty name calling, personal attacking, people banning debate. I really don't see the bickering either. For once several members joined in on a debated situation and respected everyones OPINIONS. That should be a good thing shouldn't it?

There is really nothing in here that can't be read by any of the younger members on here either. If anything this is one of those debates that the younger members can benefit from. People standing up for what they beleive in with out insulting each other. They can see that a discussion that includes religion can be debated by people with many views on it without being rude or name calling.

I personally in my opinion see nothing wrong with this thread. I think everyone that participated in it should be proud of themselves for not letting it go where some of these have gone!

[SkyHighT100]

I didnt say that it should be locked, I'm just suprised that it hasnt been. Chances are, it'll be locked eventually because topics like these 99% of the time get a bit dirty, lol.

[Honda328i]

It is healthy for children to see that their parents make a stand for something that is important to them, something that should be done more often these days.  It is about courage and honor in the face of calamity.

Where would we be in this country if good people did not stand for what is right?  Segregation? Slavery? Women who can't vote?  You better believe that those were HOT topics.  In the end, Truth always prevails.

[Moose]

Oh this thread is being watched, by many, trust me. You know what, the young children are watching also. Don't they copy us older ones in their actions as they grow up?

I made that statement for a few that have taken it to the edge, right to it. Just a nudge to maybe get them to think first. Enough said.

The remainder of you, a debate is good, duke it out, just keep it clean please.

[AlterEgo]

I'm kind of amazed that this thread hasnt been deleted/locked yet. All I see is this as is a bickering about religion and politics... arent those no-nos on the discussion boards? We all know that this thread can go back and forth for 10000000 pages... everyone has thier own opinion and considering the gravity of the topic, I HIGHLY doubt anyone is going to change thier opinions anytime soon, not that anyone should.

Why should this be locked it is not a heated, nasty name calling, personal attacking, people banning debate. I really don't see the bickering either. For once several members joined in on a debated situation and respected everyones OPINIONS. That should be a good thing shouldn't it?

There is really nothing in here that can't be read by any of the younger members on here either. If anything this is one of those debates that the younger members can benefit from. People standing up for what they beleive in with out insulting each other. They can see that a discussion that includes religion can be debated by people with many views on it without being rude or name calling.

I personally in my opinion see nothing wrong with this thread. I think everyone that participated in it should be proud of themselves for not letting it go where some of these have gone!

Nothing wrong with a healthy debate and expression of opinions. But from what I can tell it's 2, maybe 3 people "debating" with everyone else and it's going 'round and 'round. In my opinion (yeah, I got one too), the closest this site should get to religion is relaying the prayer you said as you were going over the handlebars or getting swallowed by mud.

But hey, maybe I'm the dummy because I keep checking on the thread! 

[GrizzlyGator]

One Nation Under GOD ,Government of the people,by the people, for the people. A Nation of peace and Prosperity built upon the principles of God, not just any God but the one spoken of in the Bible, yes WE have freedom of religion here in this great nation to worship, a tree if you like, but it is God, Jesus Christ that our forefathers have built this nation upon.

No People can be bound to acknowledge
and adore the invisible hand which conducts the affairs
of men more than the people of the United States.
Every step in which they have advanced to the
character of an independent nation seems to have been
distinguished by some token of providential agency.
-President George Washington,
Inaugural Address     

WOW!! Could you imagine the heat President Bush would take over a statement like that today (IN OUR NATION!)

I personally am Thankful that me and my family are able to live in such a great nation, that many hundreds of thousands of our fellow countrymen  have payed a great price for, that many of us will never even begin to relate to, so that we can enjoy our freedoms & liberties.

   In 1952, William Randolph Hearst began a campaign to bring about legislation to officially add the words under God to the pledge of allegiance, this was started because President Abraham Lincoln had added these same words to the end of his Gettysgurg Address (there's more to this story but this is the short version)
  In 1954 President Dwight D. Eisenhower approved the change on Flag Day and proclaimed, "In this way we are REaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and FUTURE; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war."

 It's truly amazing & saddening  to me that we in this country have gone so long as the silent majority that one man in California can stand up and voice an opinion  against the plege of allegiance & one nation under God on money,and others can take the Ten Commandments out of court houses, and Christmas songs can't be sung anymore etc. and literaly reshape how our nation was founded upon.     

 

[greenmachine]

They (liberal non beleivers) will NEVER shape my life of my children. We can shape the future of America by teaching our children what IS RIGHT!!!!! GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!

[Chuck_Norris]

One Nation Under GOD ,Government of the people,by the people, for the people. A Nation of peace and Prosperity built upon the principles of God, not just any God but the one spoken of in the Bible, yes WE have freedom of religion here in this great nation to worship, a tree if you like, but it is God, Jesus Christ that our forefathers have built this nation upon.

No People can be bound to acknowledge
and adore the invisible hand which conducts the affairs
of men more than the people of the United States.
Every step in which they have advanced to the
character of an independent nation seems to have been
distinguished by some token of providential agency.
-President George Washington,
Inaugural Address     

WOW!! Could you imagine the heat President Bush would take over a statement like that today (IN OUR NATION!)

I personally am Thankful that me and my family are able to live in such a great nation, that many hundreds of thousands of our fellow countrymen  have payed a great price for, that many of us will never even begin to relate to, so that we can enjoy our freedoms & liberties.

   In 1952, William Randolph Hearst began a campaign to bring about legislation to officially add the words under God to the pledge of allegiance, this was started because President Abraham Lincoln had added these same words to the end of his Gettysgurg Address (there's more to this story but this is the short version)
  In 1954 President Dwight D. Eisenhower approved the change on Flag Day and proclaimed, "In this way we are REaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and FUTURE; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war."

 It's truly amazing & saddening  to me that we in this country have gone so long as the silent majority that one man in California can stand up and voice an opinion  against the plege of allegiance & one nation under God on money,and others can take the Ten Commandments out of court houses, and Christmas songs can't be sung anymore etc. and literaly reshape how our nation was founded upon.     

 

 WELL SAID!!!!!! I COULD NOT HELP BUT TO GET UP AND SHOUT WITH THAT ONE

[tony pitts]

if you live your life the right way you dont have to worry about any thing any way you dont need to follow any relegion because if there is a god up there he does'nt or should not judge you for what you believe just how you run your life.

[CABLEGUY1]

No, you are  probably right Yunt.  :(I most likely would make an attempt to restrain them in some form.  I really couldn't give an honest answer on how I would respond to a situation like that, but I would assume I would make an attempt to survive. 
Yes I would be a draft dodger.  Try and start something over that, see if I care.  I'm not about to put my life on the line for anyone, unless there was no way around it. 
Bluesman-respect

    Let me get this right. You refuse to say the pledge, you think in god we trust should be removed from our currency, you admit you would be a draft dodger. I must say you seem as anti american as they come. I bet you probably have no problem with the burning of our flag if someone chose to do so. Am I correct? I do agree that you definately have the right to believe in whatever you like and practice whatever religion you choose,that's one of the things that makes this country so great is that it even opens it's arms to people that would not defend it or respect it's beliefs but I also have the right to not associate myself with the type of people with your beliefs. You see,this great country gives us both EQUAL rights. Yes here we believe in Jesus Christ and over there they believe in Allah. The difference is here we give people with different religious beliefs the right to practice them and preech them openly. Over there if an American openly proclaims his Christianity you may see his head attached to a stick being parraded down the street. I respect your right because American sons and daughters have and continue to spill their blood giving you that right but I dont respect your choice to dishonor the sacrifices given by these true blooded Americans. You may be a nice guy whos knows, but you don't have the values of someone I would want to associate myself with. I have tried to make my point in a polite way without name calling and I hope I have. Good luck and may you never find yourself "SITTING" at a Nascar race surrounded by camouflaged men when the National Anthem is being played.

[GrizzlyGator]

Now, one last thing.  You guys are not seeing the whole picture.  This is about more than The Pledge of Allegiance or In God we Trust on our currency.  This is about religious fundamentalist trying to ram their values on me. 

Fishahallic,  I personally don't think anyone is raming their religeous values on you or anyone else, but I dare say that we are at a very touchy cross road in our country, let me explain, This country from the start was built upon our forefathers faith ,their belief in God , Jesus Christ and the teachings of the bible (what better laws to live by than the 10 commandment) if we all followed them I'd imagine prisons wouldn,t be populated and we wouldn't be in the quandry we are today! We grew a great nation from very humble beginings into the most powerful nation on earth, and the one common denominator that we had in our early exsistance was the helping hand of God and our forefathers belief in him and their great faith in him. There is a book that some on here may want to read maybe not but its called UNDER GOD by Toby Mac & Micheal Tait, over 350 pages of examples of letters, speeches, quotes of the very men and women, black & white who grew this nation into what it is today, you might be suprised at all the people written about in this book.

As you can see, even this dictionary(which I would consider any dictionary to be considered a reliable source)says, "God or a god".
"one nation under God". This isn't giving much room for flexibility. 
I'm not saying that it could be rewritten at this pont neccesarily, but if it was worded in a different way originally, maybe this would not be such an issue for some people. 

The reason it wasn't written in a more flexible form is because they mean't, Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, maybe you don't believe in him but the founding fathers of this great nation did!!

if you live your life the right way you dont have to worry about any thing any way you dont need to follow any relegion because if there is a god up there he does'nt or should not judge you for what you believe just how you run your life.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions! 

[SkyHighT100]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions! 

I'm sure it is, but how does anyone really know that? Who knows how many times the Bible has been altered, edited, cropped, etc. Not to mention all the books of the Bible (and other religions Bibles [EX: Koran]) that have  been lost over the ages. The truth is all in how people perceive it. With all the religions out there, every one of them thinks they are the "true" religion... who's really right and who's really wrong? It's all in what you believe and just like everything else in this world, everyone has thier own opinions on what is right for them, including religion and politics. 

[VForcedave]

Is this debate going to continue through this week as well?? Good Luck

[dreth]

I'm kind of amazed that this thread hasnt been deleted/locked yet. All I see is this as is a bickering about religion and politics... arent those no-nos on the discussion boards? We all know that this thread can go back and forth for 10000000 pages... everyone has thier own opinion and considering the gravity of the topic, I HIGHLY doubt anyone is going to change thier opinions anytime soon, not that anyone should.

Why should this be locked it is not a heated, nasty name calling, personal attacking, people banning debate. I really don't see the bickering either. For once several members joined in on a debated situation and respected everyones OPINIONS. That should be a good thing shouldn't it?

There is really nothing in here that can't be read by any of the younger members on here either. If anything this is one of those debates that the younger members can benefit from. People standing up for what they beleive in with out insulting each other. They can see that a discussion that includes religion can be debated by people with many views on it without being rude or name calling.

I personally in my opinion see nothing wrong with this thread. I think everyone that participated in it should be proud of themselves for not letting it go where some of these have gone!

Nothing wrong with a healthy debate and expression of opinions. But from what I can tell it's 2, maybe 3 people "debating" with everyone else and it's going 'round and 'round. In my opinion (yeah, I got one too), the closest this site should get to religion is relaying the prayer you said as you were going over the handlebars or getting swallowed by mud.

But hey, maybe I'm the dummy because I keep checking on the thread! 

very good point. IF YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THIS THREAD then dont click on it! let the rest of us enjoy our debate 

[Honda328i]

I wasn't going to reply to this again, but dreth, you got me going again, so this one is for you:

One Nation, "Under GOD" 
 
One day, a six-year-old girl was sitting in a classroom.
The teacher was explaining evolution to the children.
The teacher asked a little boy:
 
TEACHER:
Tommy, do you see the tree outside?
 
TOMMY:
Yes
 
TEACHER:
Tommy, do you see the grass outside?

TOMMY:
Yes.
 
TEACHER:
Go outside and look up and see if you can see the sky.
 
TOMMY:
Okay.
(He returned a few minutes later)
Yes, I saw the sky.
 
TEACHER:
Did you see GOD?
 
TOMMY:
 No.
 
TEACHER:
That's my point.
We can't see GOD because HE isn't there.
HE just doesn't exist.
 
A little girl spoke up wanting to ask the boy some questions. The
teacher agreed.
 
LITTLE GIRL:
Tommy, do you see the tree outside?

TOMMY:
Yes.

LITTLE GIRL:
Tommy do you see the grass outside?
 
TOMMY:
Yessssss!
 
 LITTLE GIRL:
Did you see the sky?
 
TOMMY:
Yessssss!
 
LITTLE GIRL:
Tommy, do you see the Teacher ?
 
TOMMY: Yes
 
LITTLE GIRL:
Do you see her brain?

TOMMY:
No.
 
LITTLE GIRL:
Then according to what we were taught today,
she doesn't have one.
 

II CORINTHIANS 5:7 "
FOR WE WALK BY FAITH, NOT BY SIGHT"

The original dead sea scrolls were found in 1946 intact inside jars of clay.  Unfortunately, they don't teach "facts" in school anymore, so I doubt many people know about this because it is "religion".
 
The doors of hell are only locked from the inside, God gains no pleasure by people choosing to enter.

[Chuck_Norris]

 

[WPBSMOKA]

Ok, call me a hypocrite!!!

No, you are  probably right Yunt.  :(I most likely would make an attempt to restrain them in some form.  I really couldn't give an honest answer on how I would respond to a situation like that, but I would assume I would make an attempt to survive. 
Yes I would be a draft dodger.  Try and start something over that, see if I care.  I'm not about to put my life on the line for anyone, unless there was no way around it. 
Bluesman-respect

    Let me get this right. You refuse to say the pledge, you think in god we trust should be removed from our currency, you admit you would be a draft dodger. I must say you seem as anti american as they come. I bet you probably have no problem with the burning of our flag if someone chose to do so. Am I correct? I do agree that you definately have the right to believe in whatever you like and practice whatever religion you choose,that's one of the things that makes this country so great is that it even opens it's arms to people that would not defend it or respect it's beliefs but I also have the right to not associate myself with the type of people with your beliefs. You see,this great country gives us both EQUAL rights. Yes here we believe in Jesus Christ and over there they believe in Allah. The difference is here we give people with different religious beliefs the right to practice them and preech them openly. Over there if an American openly proclaims his Christianity you may see his head attached to a stick being parraded down the street. I respect your right because American sons and daughters have and continue to spill their blood giving you that right but I dont respect your choice to dishonor the sacrifices given by these true blooded Americans. You may be a nice guy whos knows, but you don't have the values of someone I would want to associate myself with. I have tried to make my point in a polite way without name calling and I hope I have. Good luck and may you never find yourself "SITTING" at a Nascar race surrounded by camouflaged men when the National Anthem is being played.

You know, I had a heck of alot typed here to debate with Mrs. Cableguy. To start this shorter version though, let me say thank you for callin me an anti-american!!!!    I always enjoy being called names.(for people that have peas for brains,thats called sarcasm) This is rediculous.  I can't even tell you how many times I have said I could care less about if it stays or goes.  I don't refuse the pledge.  (Once again,it would be respectful to actually read what I wrote!!!!)The only thing you had right out of that, was the fact that I would not let someone force me to put a gun in my hand and take another mans life.  You know what, I could go on and on just laying into Mrs.Cableguy, but honestly, I am so insulted by this guy talking to me as if I am some kind of idiot.  That was probably one of the most rediculous replies that has been on here. I mean true blooded American?!?!?!what the crap???And I like how you go on about me being dishonorable. Thanks for judging! I am dying to whole heartedly reply, but ah.....screw it. Nothing I have said so far is getting through. Don't know if it's thick heads,   or just the lack of I.Q. 

[WPBSMOKA]

Grizzlygator wrote-
The reason it wasn't written in a more flexible form is because they mean't, Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, maybe you don't believe in him but the founding fathers of this great nation did!!
Did your mommy or daddy have to help you with that one?  That's the whole issue here.  It's labeling everyone as christians.   

[GrizzlyGator]

Grizzlygator wrote-
The reason it wasn't written in a more flexible form is because they mean't, Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, maybe you don't believe in him but the founding fathers of this great nation did!!
Did your mommy or daddy have to help you with that one?  That's the whole issue here.  It's labeling everyone as christians.   

Well WPBSMOKA, I happen to be 39 yrs old. so my mommy and daddy didnt have to speak for me, are yours doing it for you??? I wasn't labeling anybody just making a statement which in fact is true, many let me clerify MOST of our founding fathers relied upon there great faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, It may be hard pill    to swallow for you but this nation was built upon Christianity no ifs, ands or buts (thanks mommy for that one).
I think the bottom line here from my stand point is this, Our nation was indeed founded upon Chritian beliefs, no one can deny that it wasn't, its importance to the earliest of settlers is quite evident look it up, yes we are a free nation, to speak, look, say, work, worship, atheism, live etc. what ever basically your heart desires as long as its not against the law, but don't deny or try to change our american heritage/history by taking God out of it, God is as much a part of this great county as any important person you can name in our short history. No body is LABELING anybody here, if I go to Russia does that make me Russian, Going to a football game dosn't make you a football player, being an american also dosn't imply that you are a Chritian either, as well as being an american dosen't make me a person that believes in abortion even though our country has more than anybody (1.5 million a year!) in the whole world.

[GrizzlyGator]

Grizzlygator wrote-
The reason it wasn't written in a more flexible form is because they mean't, Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, maybe you don't believe in him but the founding fathers of this great nation did!!
Did your mommy or daddy have to help you with that one?  That's the whole issue here.  It's labeling everyone as christians.   

Ok, call me a hypocrite!!!

  You know what, I could go on and on just laying into Mrs.Cableguy, but honestly, I am so insulted by this guy talking to me as if I am some kind of idiot.  That was probably one of the most rediculous replies that has been on here.   or just the lack of I.Q. 

Whats that about a pot and a Ketlle  

[AlterEgo]

Grizzlygator wrote-
The reason it wasn't written in a more flexible form is because they mean't, Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, maybe you don't believe in him but the founding fathers of this great nation did!!
Did your mommy or daddy have to help you with that one?  That's the whole issue here.  It's labeling everyone as christians.   

Well WPBSMOKA, I happen to be 39 yrs old. so my mommy and daddy didnt have to speak for me, are yours doing it for you??? I wasn't labeling anybody just making a statement which in fact is true, many let me clerify MOST of our founding fathers relied upon there great faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, It may be hard pill    to swallow for you but this nation was built upon Christianity no ifs, ands or buts (thanks mommy for that one).
I think the bottom line here from my stand point is this, Our nation was indeed founded upon Chritian beliefs, no one can deny that it wasn't, its importance to the earliest of settlers is quite evident look it up, yes we are a free nation, to speak, look, say, work, worship, atheism, live etc. what ever basically your heart desires as long as its not against the law, but don't deny or try to change our american heritage/history by taking God out of it, God is as much a part of this great county as any important person you can name in our short history. No body is LABELING anybody here, if I go to Russia does that make me Russian, Going to a football game dosn't make you a football player, being an american also dosn't imply that you are a Chritian either, as well as being an american dosen't make me a person that believes in abortion even though our country has more than anybody (1.5 million a year!) in the whole world.

bravo.

[WPBSMOKA]

Grizzlygator wrote-
The reason it wasn't written in a more flexible form is because they mean't, Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, maybe you don't believe in him but the founding fathers of this great nation did!!
Did your mommy or daddy have to help you with that one?  That's the whole issue here.  It's labeling everyone as christians.   

Well WPBSMOKA, I happen to be 39 yrs old. so my mommy and daddy didnt have to speak for me, are yours doing it for you??? I wasn't labeling anybody just making a statement which in fact is true, many let me clerify MOST of our founding fathers relied upon there great faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, It may be hard pill    to swallow for you but this nation was built upon Christianity no ifs, ands or buts (thanks mommy for that one).
I think the bottom line here from my stand point is this, Our nation was indeed founded upon Chritian beliefs, no one can deny that it wasn't, its importance to the earliest of settlers is quite evident look it up, yes we are a free nation, to speak, look, say, work, worship, atheism, live etc. what ever basically your heart desires as long as its not against the law, but don't deny or try to change our american heritage/history by taking God out of it, God is as much a part of this great county as any important person you can name in our short history. No body is LABELING anybody here, if I go to Russia does that make me Russian, Going to a football game dosn't make you a football player, being an american also dosn't imply that you are a Chritian either, as well as being an american dosen't make me a person that believes in abortion even though our country has more than anybody (1.5 million a year!) in the whole world.

How about reading over everything I wrote.  This country is forcing to be labeled blah blah blah.  Everything that people keep bringing up in defense has already been shot down a few days ago.  All you have to do is go back and see that I already covered the labeling issue a few days ago.  And we already covered that the reason why people founded this country was to get away from one that was forcing them to only have one religious view point.  Like I said, I have already shot all of this down.  Now this is just  a waste of my time.  People coming to me with the same stuff that has already been discussed.  I won't even be checking this thread again.  Pathetic really.  If you have a dispute, send me a PM. Peace
You could at least give the courtesy of knowing whats already been discussed on here before you try jumping in the end of it. 

[bigscrub79]

I am definately christian but in WPBSMOKA's defense: This country was foudned by christians and most of the laws were developed by christians. The founding fathers did how ever try to make it very clear that there should be a seperation of church and state. They saw what happened in England when the church and government were run together. They wanted to make sure that didnt happen again.